RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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darklord841 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/21/2011 4:10:50)

and i actually managed to beat a stupe stunner without a stun



Devastate -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/21/2011 8:02:21)

In my opinion, the stuns shouldn't be banned nor have their effects altered in any form. People do have different battle plans and personalities when it comes to coming up with a build. So take for example a player who kept his "Stupefacio" all the way until the start of PvP knowing that it would be so much useful compared to another player who immediately disposed his skill for the sake of "Space-saving", in this case if the effects or the skill itself be banned, it would be so unfair to the one who kept it.

A better idea for me would implement COUNTER-STUN skills or CANCELLATION SKILLS.



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/21/2011 8:39:26)

drak...each attack skill has a limited range...depending on the rang can also influnce the aturo target function for expalme bash is short range thier for it will only lock on if you open up with it when your next to or kinda under your enmeany

DT is stilll weak becuase of its massive cooldown...it makes it impractil in brawl and teams

as for you doomus that set up which you spoke of had three speed buffers not two, i can explain more in person becuase again i dont like ppl spaming things like that

as well i noticed a new craze in pvp that bothers me...only showing up after i was braging about my one shot setup,doing like 900s in one attack basicle rendering any and all heal worth less....yes mental thats all i basicly see now...idk if ppl also want to do this one shoter ot one two punch thing or what....but (this is me ranting) this is a game where your can and often should be creative in a way often make things your own and such....when i pvp and see nothen but mental for at least a soild 20 hour time slot that really disappoints me...but also makes me very happy and proud to see most of the better pvpers try to stray from conveincle thinking and again makes things of thier own..i would list the ppl i can thing of but i rather not

deva i can see a self buffer for counter stun....but cancleion moves are basicly a STUN

anyway thiers my thoughts about the behavors of pvpers as well as skills used by them, this is link and im out, toodos :3



Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/21/2011 14:50:33)

I'm using a radiation build myself right now, although if the Team 10 powers ever get updated I'll likely go back to a physical build.



Drakkoniss -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/21/2011 17:27:16)

Actually, Linklink, I don't really necessarily want stuns to be banned. I'm actually somewhat neutral on that, but I can understand why someone would want them to be, and I wouldn't be too mad if they were.

I do agree with Devestate, in that you CAN get around a stun build, either by using stuns opportunely, or by adding to your dodging ability, ect. I also think that HS should be quite diverse, anturally, in combat, and that the fact that the stun builds are here will cause many to create new builds to counter them, and so the game should go when a new skill that overpowers old ones is released, although I admit there are limits to how much should be put up with, and if EXTREMELY overpowerd skills, such as one that stuns, adds 50% critical hit increase, increases damage, and increases their haste at the same time, they should be dealt with, and possibly not allowed in PvP at all, but at the moment, I think powers are pretty effectively balanced, and most people just haven't created builds powerful enough to counter the tough builds out right now.

And yeah, linklink, I don't like the idea of using three cooldown reducers/haste buffs in conjunction with a stun, either... I could do that, but the idea of it disgusts me.

Urm... Link, I don't think mental powers can deal 900 damage on a crit, unless it's buffs combined with Abra... Can they?

Also, I would like the record to show that I was using a mental power build before the fad began in earnest.

20 hours?...

And yeah, it's good to see many of the pros are making new, unique, builds, which differ from the norm.



ND Mallet -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/21/2011 22:54:50)

Like I predicted, Burst Damage builds would be a huge problem in the balance department. I haven't fought many stun builds but you need to remember that stuns are directly related in power to your build. That means burst damage stun builds are extremely dangerous because they could stun right before you heal, thus sealing your fate. Stuns are only as powerful as the skills you can use during that period of helplessness. They can also be a problem since those extra moments can give your opponent time to heal damage and, if they find the right skills and get lucky, repeat this process over and over. I've played plenty of ED PvP to notice problems before they get too big.



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/22/2011 4:29:01)

drak...this was 20 hours of pvpen all together. as well i dont want them band just nerfed but i can live without it...the other day i went agenst deva stupi AND bash...and he had DT still walked out with full hp (no not a respawn) im just saying less exped pvpers cant handle it...or certin bbuilds cant handle stuns

as for the 900s it was simple..since thier are two mental buffers...and one skill like DT it dose 500-600 non crit...but since they often increase crit chance by around 75% together it often dose 800-950...thiers even some cases when i used disease with that build and did up to 1100s...i know saying this will increase the lack of cretivety and ppll will use meh one shot set up .-.

mallet guy..i have a damge burst set up...not nearly as good as one thinks...its only "great" in teams becuase you lose points for healing

off note teams i love it..it provides a callenge becuase i cant heal and ppl often pile me due to meh rep :3 ooodles of fun fun....brawls still my crap though x3

as well mallet guy iv seems plays such as tome, deva, doomus, and my self use that...from what i can see the only way to contuer the massive damge as said above along with stun is to either stun first or if you live though the hit stun/darkness/forsight/lighting reflexes to increase evasion a bit and pray to get lucky and buff your heal with a melee buffer then heal once and slam him harder if not faster

i have three "god mode" builds....all attack with one stun...my controled stun where i use three speed buffers to keep you under stun leaven you move only once then stun again (this one is to be feared). or my one shotter with stun

do notice they all have one thing in common...as well i hope with me being informtive about this i wont regret it by hearing this stuff leak out into the pvp world on HS...i still have one still up that i said i never use...but that might change if i see meh own made set ups used...the link is watchen....



darklord841 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/22/2011 5:49:57)

guys i only use two haste buffers warrior spirit and pulsar, but i was thinking that stun burst beats stun spam and also healing decreases ur points in 3v3, is that true?

and i beat a stun build using this build

healing touch
molecular
epi
pulsar
spirit

u can change molecular or touch for freeze


Posts merged, please do not double post. If you have something extra to add use the Edit button when you post, thanks. ~Digi



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/22/2011 7:34:13)

hard to beilve you beat a spam stunner with prue heal...it has no attack power...the only way i can even see this happing is cuase the stunner ran out of mana/ was careless with his mana



ND Mallet -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/22/2011 8:49:07)

@link My build is no ordinary burst damage build. I have Frozen Wrath(that skill which increases Ice damage and applies DoT) and Brain Freeze(another Ice DoT). Warrior Spirit increases attack time and power giving me more damage plus the two DoTs which do stack. This build is designed for putting out high constant damage. It's like a sprinter with endurance. I can't have the best of both but I can get a good balance between damage and energy costs.



Sir Night -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/22/2011 11:41:07)

I do think that Stupefacio's cooldown should be longer to avoid the endless stun loop, but to me saying that stuns should be banned all together just because people don't like having their combos interfered with is just silly. (For the record I use Bash, not Stupefacio.)

I could see banning stun spam combos, but if you're gonna do that then you would also need to ban 1 hit KO setups, because they're essentially the same thing. Either way the idea is that once you hit your opponent, they're done.



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/23/2011 8:43:49)

lol mallet guy from my exp somen like that dont really wouldnt kill me possbly other ppl, but yes one 40-50 DoTwith another 50 dot is nice but i realy dont think that would hinder me seeing as i use vamp bit with a nice 60-70 HoT maken your DoT 30-40, much less scary :3


i would also like stupi to have longer cooldown



Jae10 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/23/2011 13:15:58)

quote:

Often I'd be stunned when I was just about to use a skill and the skill wouldn't activate, yet I would still waste
energy and the skill would go into cooldown depsite the fact that it didn't work. I don't think that's fair.


AMEN!!! I find this extremely distateful. A "stun" should not be able to do all that. Otherwise, it should be added to the stun power description...which, it isn't...


quote:

My other concern is when people use very strong moves like Death Touch. Death Touch has the capability to take out
most of your hp with just one hit and that's not fair. Even with its energy, cooldown and the fact that it drains your health, like I
recall someone mentioning before, it doesn't make a difference if your opponent dies before the energy and cooldown negatively affects your performance.


Mhmmhm. Obviously, there is not enough efficient dodge capabilities available for countering something like that (especially if you're stunned prior to this offense).

Lets look at this scenerio from a simpler vantage point:

< Opponent uses a stun.

< You waste energy trying to activate a skill that's now recharging and quite useless.

< Opponent KO's you in 1 or 2 hits while your in stun.

or

<You barely come out of stun and maybe get, oh lets say one hit in (if your power's done recharging, that is) before the opponent lands a 1 hit KO still...

Countering abilities adequate enough to properly defend against this type of setup is seriously lacking.











ND Mallet -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/23/2011 23:14:07)

@linklink Try 100 DoTs. Plus the 100 of each auto attack plus the bonus damage of using the DoT skill. I do believe that Frozen Wrath increases the damage of the DoT since they were both inflicted by an Ice attack but I don't know for sure.



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/24/2011 8:03:28)

lols it dont the only way ice typ DoTs is via frozen core SC move

frozen warith only increases impact damge done by ice soo your brain freeze instead of doing like 110 or somen it dose 180...that just an exapamle...it was like 2 months ago i tested all the ice moves and fire moves....i wasnt very happy with them...though ice is better out of the two

mallet guy if your set up as good as you push it to be why not pvp me later on in the day after im done with thanksgiven at my grandparents place, hmm?

as well your DoT damge adds up to 100...but ice can still go higher me and evic gotten it up to 100-175




kamiry -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 0:15:37)

ok i gotta say this this is kamiry one of the so called stupefacio users, i do want to say this, stupefacio is a lil cheap by far but they're ways around it most def if you cant find those ways out then im sorry for example i fight tally all the time ive beaten her w/o stupe many people just need to find out what to do for example stop using skills during stupe, heal right after stupe USE BASH if u have to because it will throw an opponent off. I for one dont ALWAYS use stupefacio tbh i make alot of dif builds so i really cant say what needs to be balanced because i know how to get by and manage through battle
i do one shot people and not by using death touch and i can be one of those op healers at times to thing is many people need to manage their builds and think about what theyre doing BE CREATIVE people READ WHAT SKILLS do

also my possibly only complaint is... the lag during pvp.. if not the lag then idk.. my pvp life is fine good luck to all if stupefacio is nerfed then ohwell its nerfed :D many people can manage w/o because to most stupe/bash users it isnt are main skill :D goodluck all



kamiry -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 0:19:38)

also... linky ur not lyin ive gotten ice dots up high i used to be a dotter now ima dodgey type person and sometimes a tanky type.. ima help u pplz out here brainfreeze if ur an alpha ALONG with frozen core frozen wrath AND frozen doom there ur dot dmg is way over 100 :D



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 7:15:20)

kam try not to duble post...

for the tally...i keep hearing she uses both stupi and bash...dose she also use speed buffers? cause my normal brawl set up can easyly overpower a normal set up with two stuns....iv been meaning to fight her but i never see her on when i log

as for that ice build...frozen warith only increased impact damge from ice skills....the dots stayed the same for me when i used them both...lol chilly wind and artic blast are really fun to mix together when you use a ice build, cuase they like freak out when they see 300+ and a 250+ back to back every 6 secs



kamiry -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 10:33:39)

yea she does but she doesnt use dt .. which is good there is a way to surpass that but its pretty dificuult tally and i pvp each other all the time plus her and i are friends.. so i know how to beat tally and honestly many people things its dificult it truly isnt just people have to think of which build to use.. ive beaten tally w/o mental builds or stuns people just gotta learn how to mix stuff up herosmash is a creative game... i just wish they'd add more skills because i love herosmash for the customization <3and about other pvpers.. link yur my good friend so is drak but the stun thing if thats going to be nerfed they should atleast make the cd to 20 sec atleast i mean stupefacio is rare now not tooo many ppl have it.. its a reason why it went rare and they should prob change the stun duration from 6-7sec to 4-5 maybe 3 secs is only needed to pull off nice numbers...OR to get back into the battle and heal.. :D



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 15:43:27)

@kamiry lols i think we went agenst eachother befor when she was like lv 16 or somen like that...i wouldnt mind fighting her again, so far only two ppl fight like me..i think doomus stoped due to the consent hounding from other players and tally...she sound like she is usen speed builds as well...its odd i would have thought more ppl would explore such an area...granted you cant pull things off like one shotter or massive 200+ or many 140+...it dose me and seems to be tally as well...though i disaprove of the stunning, i cant really stop her

dose she use other things then stun?

i agree at least shorten the stupi stun time..or increase the cooldown to 25-45 secs becuase it lasts longer then bash and never misses...aannnnnd long range

off current topic...iv noticed most "good" pvpers are ppl with more SC or rare and more often the case high rep in evil or good...tome and i are the only ones who actively have a lot of rep in said factions and seem to do better then most...just saying rep powers are very very strong the rep ten kick/fist moves do 150-200 every 1-1.5 secs...i am hopen to at least reach rank 8 soon only 20k or so left till then :P



Tally -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 19:02:49)

Aww come on people, don't hate on stuns. xD There's always a way to get around them. and no Link, I've been lvl 20 since not long after the cap was raised xD



Antithesis -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 19:35:15)

Stupefacio needs a longer cooldown, because when used with Pulsar or anything like that it is easy to have a non-stop stun build.
No names, but a certain user here got mad at me because I completely destroyed him and now he's going around claiming I'm a *one-shotting noob* even though I don't actually one-shot. And then shortly thereafter claimed *pro-status* because they beat me using continuous stuns.

That's just sad and pathetic, and we should fix stupefacio.


Sorry Tally, lol.

Cheers,
Anti



Tally -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 19:37:02)

lol I don't do that, but I know who you're talking about xD



linklink0091 -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 20:22:19)

i would like names...im not as up set over stuns now as i used to be...i just see it as they cant really fight without a pure stun set up...like some players who i wont say names >->

lol i remember going agenst you tally i swear...but you was like uber easy the first time we met



Tally -> RE: =HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread (11/25/2011 21:00:36)

Nope, I haven't fought you before today sorry. xD



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