RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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Oba -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 18:33:34)

Idk, 38% might be much. But I was thinking just like you first, then I re-wrote it all with that idea... I wrote earlier.

But since its a cooldown at 3 turns, well, it might not be to much then. I'd like the balance testers to test this, and tell us what they think [;)]



Chosen 0ne -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 18:34:07)

A question we should ask ourselves: Should evolved classes be better than the originals or not?



Digital X -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 18:48:13)

I say yes, the 3 new newest classes are what you can call "upgrades" of the old ones so i think it is only right that they hold some sort significant benefits over the others. Otherwise having the new ones would not really be all well and good unless there is some sort of comparison to go by. If there was nothing to differentiate the new ones from the old ones, would there be any purpose in having them?

Now, with the release of the new classes a lot of people decided to switch to them to see what they were like and how they played out. Sometimes it might have been without thinking too greatly on the subject as a majority of the time, "newer means better" as they have had time to be looked upon and can be seen, discussed and planned out where the old classes may not have excelled, and then giving them what is/could have been, a better skill tree overall. Now, over time things may have seen a little strong, or a little too weak and such changes have been applied to try and correct this, such as the recent Hybrid Armour change, or the previous weeks balance update which may have been benefited some, but not to others. This either could be to personal taste in builds, or just generally.






Xendran -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 19:36:20)

Digital X: The new classes are NOT supposed to be upgrades, that is not how pvp balance works. They are supposed to be alternatives.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 20:06:03)

^ Yes and no. PaY 900 vArIuM oR 50, 000 cReDiTs... to get new skills that may or may not prove useful with regards to which player uses them to their full capacity. IMO... the new classes aren't very different from the first 3 unfortunately. Its just mixed-and-matched qualities of either mercenary, bounty hunter, or tech mage. When they alter the newer classes I beseech unique skills to replace fixes.



steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 20:11:17)

Why not make it something where you gain health and energy by just attacking it kind of like static charge but we kinda need to lower the %.
More like this:



Lvl 1:14%
Lvl 2:16%
Lvl 3:18%
Lvl 4:20%
Lvl 5:22%
Lvl 6:24%
Lvl 7:26%
Lvl 8:28%
Lvl 9:30%
Lvl10:32%
where you take 70% of the damage, kind of like static charge but 10% less since they have 2 regain It will have tech requirement Warm Up:1 Cooldown:2
.

Edit: Since 38% is too high and 3 turns cooldown mean less chance of using it, i deciced to change a bit. There now a 6% reducing from before and down to 2 turns cooldown (down from 3) so you can use it more often.[/size



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 20:13:36)

^ I like new skills but energy-health regeneration? I think I'll pass for this topic.



steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 20:24:59)

This skill give you % of less defletion, and increase rage rate
Passive:
It called: Perfect Hit
LVL %
1 2
2 3 The stat requirement is either Dex,Tech or supp and is will go up to 42 stats requirement at level 10
3 4
4 5
5 6 It make you get faster Rage rate so you can do lots of damage. Deflection just in case you get deflection
6 7
7 8
8 9
9 10
10 11
This is pretty good if your a high support build, that make you stronger but the lowest deflection is alway 2% and fastest rage rate is 115%



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 21:03:20)

This rage skill you are proposing is an improvement, I also like it quite a bit `v`



frosty123 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 22:45:08)

I think that rage idea is quite good. My second thought on a skill is a skill that swaps around the stats. Like tech switches with support, dex switches with str, and health and energy switch.

Like if you had 10 tech and 20 support. Activate "the skill" and you get 20 tech 10 support.

Skill called something

Lv1 20%
Lv2 25
Lv3 50 percent of each stat switches. 50 tech 25 support=37 tech 38 support
Lv4 60% of each stat switches. 100 support 25 tech=70 tech 62 support
Lv5 75% of each stat switches 200 dex 100 str=str 175 100 dex
Lv6 80%
Lv7 85%
Lv8 90%
Lv9 95%
Lv 10 100%



Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/15/2012 23:38:45)

Did a little blood mage experiment recently, due to problems with gamma bot blocks.

Went from 74 dex with phys armor to 96 dex with resistance armor. The bot DID hit more
regularly, instead of the 50% blocks with 74 dex, so my question is...do we really need 100
dex to have the dam thing hit more than half the time? Or is this some disguised TLM nerf...

From a 5 focus perspective this was successful, finally having the bot work as it was intended,
with an occasional block, not just another waste of a turn, etc... However, this build was a
total FAIL. 96 dex results in 28-34 +1 defense (comparitively low), bot damage was reduced
about 5 points (lower tech), and it is difficult to defend with reflex when going last in a 2v2 when
the first hit is a smoke and the second hit is a physical aux or weap. Switched from cannon to
fireball as well....not good....results in about 25 dmg to an avg tank. Use it on rage you say?
Can hardly live long enough to rage it...or the mana is atom smashed or emp'd by then.

And, of course, when your weakness is defense, you're mainly up against tank/str/phys weapon
opponents in 2v2. Changing to physical armor with lower resist seems to result in most having
tank/str/energy weaps, etc... Funny how that works...

SO...it is back to phys armor and take my chances with low resistance/energy shield and just
accept the insanely low hit rate of the gamma bot at 74 dex. With all of the TLM and CH tank
builds to fight...the 40 or so less points available to mages due to passive armors is a VERY
difficult mountain to climb...

...and b4 you say it...bloodlust is a great passive if half your turns aren't spent shielding nerfs
on you or your partner, or getting an attack blocked. If you're not hitting high, you're not
regenerating. While it is the heart of most bloodmage builds, it is far from all you need to
be successful... Having your first 2 moves be shield, then heal is not so great...




Angels Holocaust -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 0:30:38)

You guys do realize that the mathematical formula for this game could be anything. Let's use the base block for instance, the Devs say that we have a guaranteed 3%. It could be 7% base block or better yet 10% base block for all we know. Remember what Titan did to help the lower level players? They have a higher chance of starting first, this could be the same situation.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 0:34:06)

@above
im pretty sure base block chance is 4% but it doesnt matter.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 0:36:46)

quote:

im pretty sure base block chance is 4% but it doesnt matter.

what she's trying to say is that lower lvls were given increased luck factors (going first) as a way of balancing them.
but they never told us about it.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 0:51:41)

actually they did i was well aware of it b4 they implemented it



theholyfighter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 0:53:26)

Just changed from Blood to Cyber. After matches, made up a solution. Cybers and Tacticals are quite balanced now. Blood Mages do need a little change, something like combining Deadly Aim with Static.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 0:59:27)

@gold They only got a higher chance of going first. Regardless, luck factors do not belong in this thread. It's posted on the very first page, on the very first post, by Ashari herself. Unless you provide proof in numbers using thousands of battles as your data field(yes, thousands of battles. Doing a few will not give clear cut answers), you shouldn't be posting about luck factors needing changed. Math gets more done than telling a story about how you got blocked twice and critted and how someone 5 levels under you just had a really nice day.

@holy fighter No. BM is fine. I wouldn't mind having something like Bludgeon replacing Reflex Boost but right now it has enough power. Fireball can cut through even the toughest of TLM's defense with little trouble. DA already has a huge advantage to strength builds, giving it the ability to restore energy will break the class in terms of balance.



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 1:05:00)

hes not complaining about luck factors needing a revamp, just stating a fact that has been around awhile



Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 1:54:12)

quote:

actually they did i was well aware of it b4 they implemented it


When and where exactly did this happen?

I've noticed players talking about all sorts of things about knowing such and such and coming up with equations that I can't seem to find anywhere.

Seems to me things are buried in some thread that very few look at and other things are given through pm's via these forums and in game by mods while the rest of us have to just accept not knowing.

Really don't like that at all. If one player knows anything about anything and isn't a mod, it's not right for the rest of us. Special treatment should not be tolerated and information regarding bans, formulas, and information regarding hacking occurrences should be given to everyone and not just the few suck ups.

Edit: Also would like to add releases. Funny how I keep running into players sharing info about a release way before it is released yet it isn't anywhere for all to see. How about instead of telling a few lucky souls the word about what is being tossed around it gets posted publicly for everyone to know about and discuss?

I believe Lycus wrote somewhere that testers were held to a high standard of secrecy. Where is the information coming from?





ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 2:13:14)

@nub http://www.epicduelwiki.com/index.php/How_Things_Are_Calculated It's also linked to in one of the stickies in Q&A. I do not know the exact date of the DNs post but they did mention that low levels would be getting a better chance of going first against higher level players.



T.600 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 2:25:44)

Almost every skill in the Tech Mage skill tree has a stat requirement. That's kind of unfair :/. They should remove the req from reroute (only for mages) and remove it from Field Medic or something. These requirement only encourage focus builds, what's the fun in that?



Zeoth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 2:32:28)

@nub
I'm no suck up that's for sure xD it was just back in the day when they posted DNs regularly



BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 3:14:51)

quote:

A rage bonus is a simpler way to deal with the first turn bonus and probably the route we'll go. Every class and build benefits to different extents from their debuffs so the extent it counteracts the first turn bonus would depends on far too many factors to be balanced. Rage on the other hand, is universal.


Finally a good idea. I thought of this since Beta. This, if developed well, will stop the annoying 20 Sup Str build as well



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 6:59:43)

Im a BM and if i start the match i 95% win , if i go 2nd i 70% win , idk how ppl call it weak. Also BM is OP in killing speed. I 2 turn non variums - 2 turn some low hp full variums and mostly 4 turn every battle.

BM is only weak against TLM and since TLM nerfed they are not very common in battles. I think CH-TM-BM-TLM is completely balanced BH and Merc need some buff.

I think shadow arts should removed from CH and it should have % def/res ignore like when you max it you will ignore 10% def/res. That will buff BH.

Also Merc need 1 more passive.



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (1/16/2012 7:16:52)

I believe BM's now need a defensive passive buff similar to Tactical mercenaries and Cyber Hunters since many players are choosing very defensive builds.



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