RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 21:21:12)

@mallet
it might stop lower lvls from abusing but it also stops high lvls to a certain degree

i was also thinking of having the CH stick with SA and replace venom for DB
this will cause some to keep using SA.
most CH have SA while using high dex.
and mostly max static with a lvl 1-3 DM and a decent heal.
with all of this they would have to sacrifice something.
heal, static, SA, mass, malf, or DB.


the only way to know, is if its tested.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 21:52:07)

@gold At 10% it gives great damage already but it scales terribly for level. At lvl 41 with a lvl 41 weapon doing 41 damage you will finally get 5 damage instead of 4 for everything 31 and up til 41.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 21:57:31)

@ND
yeah but lvl 41 is far away,
plus if we have lvl 41 we are most likely to have higher defense by then because unless agility gets removed or lvl scaled stat points wont go to hp so much but most will go to defensive stats like dex or tech. most likely dex. and then a little bit to str or support.

so while we wait for 7 more lvls, thats a total of 28 stats alone (not including weapons) which will give more than 5 lvls of defense.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 22:06:59)

Let me bring back my argument of it being either useless or overpowered. A skill that only gives you 1 extra damage every 10 levels would be considered by many to be useless. 1 damage does not make up for 10 levels of increased defenses.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 22:10:37)

@nd
dont forget its rounded up.
if it is 1 damage lvl. then all it would take, is lvl 1. not lvl 10 (because it would have the same effect. its like having lvl 7 DA with a stun gun and then having lvl 9 when the damage increase occurs at lvl 10)



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 22:20:24)

At level 1 it gives one damage indefinitely since I doubt we'll go past lvl 100. At level 2 it gives 1 every 50 levels. 3% gives 2 damage after 33 damage. 4% gives 2 damage after lvl 26. 5% at lvl 21. 6% at level 17. 7% at level 15. 8% at level 13. 9% at level 12. 10% at level 11. Those 10 skill points could be used for something much better than 1 damage every several levels.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 22:27:16)

@nd
exactly
so it isn't OP. but it isn't completely useless.

from my understanding the lvl doesn't matter. 1% will be rounded up and give 1 extra damage always. (even if ur lvl2)



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 22:33:53)

Lvl doesn't matter but weapon damage does. And at 10% it increases by 1 damage by every 10 points of weapon damage. 3.1 damage from a 31 damage weapon rounds up to 4 just like a lvl 40 weapon giving you exactly 40. At 41 it gives 5 because of rounding. It's only useful if you invest 10 points in it and hardly then since, like you said, people will have more than enough stats to cover the increase of 1 damage every ten levels. Replacing SA with DB only nerfs you in the long run since 10% extra chance to block will always be 10% to block unlike DB which will give you 5 damage when we have 41 damage weapons.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/2/2011 22:46:34)

@nd
the skill doesn't need to be maxxed. its just suppose to be a boost. and replacing venom strike with DB would be a better option
because most CH i see dont use venom. and SA would be more usefull than venom.
with a lvl 34 wep. lvl 6 DB would work fine for 3 extra damage. if that is bad, then the only thing i can think of to make better than what it currently is,
is for it to passivly increase ur str instead of just primary damage. this way it also works with gun damage.
passive stat increase should appear in blue. (that way buffs like field commander would still apply)



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 3:30:34)

@gold It's just not going to work out. 1-3 damage boost will be next to unnoticeable so you'll practically have just wasted several skill points for numbers you probably won't even notice.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 9:01:58)

Laces, you are foolish to think my ideas will never be implemented
because they have been considered and they are trying everything else
first.

To start the weakiest multi at a higher stat then a stronger multi is unbalanced
does not matter if you can spam one stat easier then another it matters how
much damage each gets on the same level players. The most i ever got was 47 on the same
level player that was with 40-48 tech while a bounty hunter/cyber hunter less dex got
50 plus damage same with the mercs/tact mercs artillery strike.

So to balance it out start each at the 28 stat point.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 9:10:14)

Epicduel Your Balance Team couldnt balance the game because they are too busy with use their free varium to do brainwash and abuse token-exp boost.

There is obvious things that makes classes imbalance and idk why these are didnt fixed yet.

TLM
Bloodsheild should be replaced with technician cause Technician+Hybrid is way too OPED ( this is very obvious to see, and idk why balance team didnt do it yet)

Atom smasher should be removed, Reroute + Atom is too powerfull, the main reason tlms are better than others because they use atom and destroy oponents super move ( Massacre and SC), they also have the ability to do healloop + they can destroy builds with only 6 energy.

BM
Fireball should be Multi skill and Atom smasher should replaced to Plasma Rain

TM

It dont need anything to change if you still thinking to buff it, you are just crazy cause TM is the 2nd strong class after TLM

CH
Upedest class i ever seen, the class hasnt got any passive :S, Shadow arts dont work in CH like it work with BH because CH has no smoke or reflex.

The class is completely defenseless, and all skills require high lvl to use. Make Static has also HP return which will be something like Bloodlust+Reroute but the skill is blockable because of that its will not be oped.

OR

Remove Shadow arts and put something like gives % def and res,
if CH has 31-38 def and 20-24 res the % def skill should give at max 21 % buff, which will be 31-38 +7 def and 20-24 +5

i took the lowest def/res values which is 31 and 20 and the skill give equal amount of def/res like Hybrid but its seperate so its weaker.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 9:25:06)

^
Not bad turk,
Some good ideas thier,


also Im glad I'm not the only one thinkinh CH needs a new skill simply becuase they lack the usaly skill tree layout which includes a decent passive,

Some goes with blood mages and an energy drian.

And I also agree that mages are fine, Often they seem weak because of the reroute counterpart TLMs when mages are clrearly not.



Matrix77 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 9:36:01)

there's no balance, just give it up guys ==....the devs said there will be balance update in this week's release and what did we get? 2 new places, 4 new weapons, inflation of varium and credit price for those weapons, and a downgrade in the sell back of delta weapons...what balance is there? I don't see any balance.


@above, I believe you're wrong about TM being the second best class. CH is definitely not UP either though I do agree with the fact that they should be given a passive. Also tech and reroute, or hybrid and tech should be removed from the tlm skill tree as both of the above pairs of skills affects their ability to tank, and heal loop.


However like I said, there's no such thing as balance in ED these days anymore, everyone just spend 50k credit or 900 varium and join the Tlms and let's run this game with that class.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying tlm is OP, all I'm saying is they have far more capabilities, and build options in comparison to the other classes. There is of course always one or several players who will be able to make an outstanding build from the other classes to counter the tlm class, but how many enhancements do they have to use? On an average without enhancements, the tlm class has the higher rate of winning a match than in comparison to the other class imo



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 10:18:13)

I SUGGESTED THIS BEFORE, ITS A REALLY GOOD IDEA!

Add these new battle modes to the game:

Expert 1 vs. 1: This is a 1 on 1 duel with no luck factors.

Expert 2 vs. 2: This is a 2 on 2 duel with no luck factors, first player to die and their team loses.



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 10:44:58)

^
Good idea in thoery but it will proberly not work out.

WHY?
Because every single build in the so called expert battle modes will BE Oped STR builds whoes main only weakness was luck.




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 10:55:13)

quote:

Because every single build in the so called expert battle modes will BE Oped STR builds whoes main only weakness was luck.


That would be a generalization, you shouldn't use those. I can guarantee you that not all non-luck builds are guaranteed strength builds. I STILL fight multiple caster mages of tech and blood in 1 vs 1.

Before I go to my point, just remember averages and generalizations do NOT represent the individual (in fact my cyber hunter build is pretty much tactical without abusing dex/str/tech/sup/hp/mp).

As a tech mage of the past I beat strength BH and M with the use of only malfunction and plasma rain. I made sure I did not rely on luck.

And you have to give every idea a try because when is the last time an EpicDuel battle was ever fought without luck?



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 11:00:44)

I do agree,

I think non luck fights would be fun, But with cureent balance it would be hard.

An example is BHs sometimes use High dex to beat str TLMs by making them block, since the block chance is so high it gets to the point were they DESERVE the blocks.

How about a battle mode which only alowd deserving luck eg, to crit you must have higher sup and to block you must have higher dex etc.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 11:03:27)

^ Sort of like Pokemon where the correct condition (psychic against dark) ensures a victory?



Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 11:07:52)

^

Um no,

Its just a mode which has luck, but only deserving luck.

But even still I dont think its needed.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 11:16:40)

i got 111 dex and 9 lvl shadow arts can you pls tell what can i do more to atleast get 1 block, but than a 70 dex person without shadow arts come and guess what block you :S

I can understand that classes can be not balanced but game is also not balanced too.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 11:42:28)

Even more suggestions! These are discussing random chance! Keep reading!

What I did is alter the existing logic.

Deflection

"Deflections will reduce the Gun or Auxiliary damage of one attack by 75%. The chance to deflect an attack is increased by Support."

"Players begin with a 5% chance to deflect all sidearm attacks. Your Support advantage or disadvantage when compared to your enemy will affect this base chance. For every 4 points of Support more you have compared to your enemy, you increase your chance to deflect their attack by 1%. Naturally, if you are the attacker, for every 4 points of Support you have compared to your enemy, you reduce their chance to deflect your attack by 1%.

The chance for Deflection can not drop below 1% and the maximum chance for Deflection is limited to 25%. This implies that investing in Support beyond a certain point will have no further improvement on your Deflection odds."

Critical strike

"Critical Strikes ignore 25% of the defending player's defense or resistance. The chance to deal a Critical Strike is increased by energy." - Major change from support to energy to reduce auxiliary OP'ability

"I want to first provide some details on how your chance to deal a Critical Strike is calculated. To approximate your odds, take the difference between your Energy and the target enemy's Energy. First, the base chance is 5%.

Let's use these numbers as an example: Your Energy = 100... Enemy Energy = 50

The difference in Energy here is 50 points. Now, divide 50 by 10 and you get 5 (after rounding). So your chance to inflict a critical strike now becomes 10% (5% base odds + 5% Energy bonus).

Also be aware that while Energy improves your chance to inflict a Critical Strike, it also reduces your Enemy's chance to inflict a Critical Strike on you! In the same example, your opponent's odds to inflict a Critical Strike are very low (the minimum chance of 1% actually). This chance is calculated by taking the base chance of 5% and subtracting your Support bonus (which in this case is 6%). Since 5% - 5% = 0%, the minimum chance of 1% is used."

Stun

"The chance to stun another player is reduced if the defender has higher Support than the attacker. The defender will reduce the chance to be stunned by 2% for every 3 points of Support they have more than the attacker.

The maximum any stun can be reduced will be 45%.

If the attacker has more support than the defender, the attacker will NOT increase the chance to stun the defender.

For example: If the attacker has 25 Support and the defender has 43 Support, the defender has an advantage of 18 Support. To determine the stun reduction, take the defender's support advantage of 18 and divide by 3. 18 / 3 = a 12% reduction in stun chance. If the attacker were a Tech Mage using Overload, the chance to be stunned would be 30% base chance - 12% stun reduction = 18% chance to be stunned.

A player cannot block or deflect while stunned."

Block

"The chance to block is determined by comparing the two players' Dexterity. So for example, if you have Player A and Player B:

Scenario 1:
Player A - Dexterity = 20
Player B - Dexterity = 20

Because both players have the same Dexterity, if Player A attacks Player B, Player B's chance to block Player A's attack will use default 5% block chance.

Scenario 2:
Player A - Dexterity = 35
Player B - Dexterity = 20

In this scenario, because Player A has significantly more Dexterity than Player B, when Player A attacks Player B, Player B will have a "below default" chance to block the attack.
Block Calculations

Block is calculated by adding the block chance adjustment to the default block chance (currently 5%).

Block chance = 5% + Block Chance Adjustment

The chance to block can never be less than 0% The chance to block can never be more than 45%

Block Chance Adjustment = (Defender's Dexterity - Attacker's Dexterity) / 2

Example 1:

Defender has 100 Dexterity
Attacker has 60 Dexterity

Block Adjustment = (100 - 60) / 2 = 20
Chance to Block = 10 + 20 = 30%

Example 2:

Defender has 60 Dexterity
Attacker has 100 Dexterity

Block Adjustment = (60 - 100) / 2 = -20
Chance to Block = 5 + -20 = -15%
Since the block chance can never reduce below 0%, the Chance to Block becomes 0%

Example 3:

Defender has 30 Dexterity (Also, the defender has a -40 Dexterity Debuff Applied)
Attacker has 29 Dexterity

Dexterity never uses negative values in calculations ... so even though a debuff is applied, the Defender's dexterity value is calculated using the minimum value of 0 instead of -10.

Block Adjustment = (1 - 29) / 2 = -14
Chance to Block = 10 + -14 = -4%
Since the block chance can never reduce below 0%, the Chance to Block becomes 0%

A good rule of thumb is that for every 2 points of Dexterity you have more or less than your enemy, your chance to block increases or decreases by 1% respectively."

I took these notes from Battle Mechanics.



Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 13:15:48)

@TurkishIncubus: I won't beat you in LuckDeServer (good server name for Luck Deserve: Luck De Server) unless you I've me a hit booster =/

Try Maxing Smoke and Reflex o_o, you would be so deadly :P



TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 14:21:39)

^The problem is im CH :P

BH/CH buff

Both BH and CH need buff,

Shadow arts stun chance should be removed(no one really use it) and replace % def/res ignore, like you will ignore 10% at max but this will be only for primary dmg. Then we can really call it shadow arts cause it will be a good passive for ch and buffs bh.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (12/3/2011 14:40:42)

^ The only issue is having BH hit more and drain more [8|].

And when I say that I mean how it affects the use of strength.



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