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brad paisley fan -> Music OOC Forums (11/26/2011 21:22:15)

I am suggesting that in the OOC room, the entertainment forum is mainly all-gaming related threads

And my threads on some music things keep on dying sometimes

Thats why I would like to suggest a music forums, seperate from the entertainment forums

OR even better, I would like to suggest that there should be a separate gamer's forums, and THEN there could be an entertainment forums isolated from gaming, so you can make threads about movies, music, etc.

The gaming forum basically dominates the whole entertainment forum, so that is why I would like it to have its own forum



Anon Y. Mous -> RE: Music OOC Forums (11/26/2011 23:50:17)

i don't think the separation of gaming from all other entertainment would work because of one problem you noted: music, tv, and movie threads die out relatively quickly. if there isn't enough interest in them where they are now, there likely isn't enough interest in them to sustain a forum solely devoted to music, tv, movie, etc threads. the reason a new entertainment subforum would be created would be to meet overflowing forumite need, not to try to spark discussion that has gone dry.



Watashig -> RE: Music OOC Forums (11/27/2011 0:45:28)

I believe bpf's point was that having a separate forum would have less people overlook these sort of threads, as he may or may not believe that people are more likely to overlook the music threads in the abundance of the gaming threads.

However, I notice that the non-AEgame community down below have different people from the AEgame community. I think a better way to get more people in the entertainment forum is perhaps to promote it. People probably don't even know that it's there.



Everest -> RE: Music OOC Forums (11/27/2011 1:29:18)

We could keep the possibility in mind. Though if we ever did make that decision it would be due to an overwhelming demarcation between game threads and other entertainment options and I'm not sure it's really reached that point yet. To be clear, lack of responses in one type of thread is not a reason we would make a new forum; rather, we would make a new forum to handle an overflow of specific material that could be separated. It may seem like two sides of the same coin but it isn't necessarily. Because certain types of threads may be more popular than others does not mean the popularity of one causes the lack of responses in other types of threads, and that's really the question we'd ask before making a decision to separate out the material.

Remember, this is at its heart a gaming forum. It is not a huge surprise to me that gaming threads are more popular in that section than other types of entertainment - which are likely not shared by as many members of the community as gaming is.



Travis Touchdown -> RE: Music OOC Forums (11/27/2011 7:54:19)

I'm not really seeing the need to have a sub-forum just for music, to be honest. Music threads tend to be far and few between.

As Everest noted, as the BattleOn forums are officially connected to a series of online games, it makes plenty of sense why gaming is a very common topic in some form or another in the Entertainment forum. But even then I'm not really sure if it needs its own sub-forum. Most threads tend to die out within a week or two at the longest and rarely get much larger than a few pages (looking right now at threads which have had activity in the last week, aside from the general tagged Anime/Manga thread and any stickies, only a couple of threads have gone on longer than four pages-- namely, the Skyrim thread which is four pages into its fifth incarnation, the Pokemon thread which has been around in some capacity for years, and the My Little Pony thread which is halfway through its second thread.) And Anon is right, removing gaming from the rest of the EF would probably result in the EF running fairly dry and most people's attention to the subforum where it ends up.



Corvus Corax -> RE: Music OOC Forums (11/27/2011 8:27:36)

I'd add that sometimes you have to put in some extra effort to launch a successful thread. Especially when it comes down to a single band/musician that may not be mainstream or well known to the majority. Adding as much detail to your first post as possible, gives people plenty to talk about and may generate more interest. Tell people why you like them, what they mean to you personally, your favorite lyrics, etc. Hope that helps, and good luck!



Starstruck -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/5/2011 21:39:59)

And...for a minute there, you guys really had me going. I look at the Gaming Community and I see boards for every activity and interest. I see Art, Writing, RP, UCaG, Gaming...

The one thing that's missing from the collection is the Music. Why do we end up talking about a Music OOC where we can talk about bands and soundtracks, when those kinds of threads are not only seen to but always dry up? Why can't we have a board specifically for playing, sharing, and writing music?

A structure for this particular forum would be as follows:

Main
>Music
>>The Practice Room
>>>General Music Discussion <-- this is the part with talking about favorite bands and such.
>>>Requests <-- this is the part where the forumites ask for other forumites to play things for them or help them find sheet music or a particular song they were looking for, and it also is a Tips/Tricks/Q&A board of sorts, with tags like [Question] and [Request] and [Shop] (for taking requests).
>>The Stage
>>>Performances <-- Compositions in PDF form, songs in MP3 form, performances in WMV form...
>>>Grand Concert Hall <-- Where unofficial contests and musci
>>>Responses <-- this is the part where, in keeping with the distinction between performance and practice, Requests are answered in music form.

If it can be done with drawing and writing, why can't it be done with music? But that's my two cents. Do with that what you will.



.Discipline -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/6/2011 15:46:06)

Yes, as an amateur musician I agree with the idea that there should be a specific creative board for music creation. We have visual art, we have literary art, the only other art we're missing should probably be accounted for.



Varen6398 -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/6/2011 16:35:20)

As an amateur guitarist, I agree with the people who want to make a forum. But I still don't think it should be made. Would it get enough attention? Would it be worth setting a forum up for it? Would anyone use it? Unfortunately the answer to those three questions is no. Whilst I wish we could have one, I don't think that we should.



Wilderock -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/8/2011 16:31:45)

I think we need to remind ourselves of the distinction between music as entertainment and music as art. We have an entertainment forum, and we also have an art forum. Would a separate, all-encompassing music subforum be necessary or even practical (that is, a subforum designed for discussing music as entertainment and sharing your own as art)? What I am wondering is if, from a practicality standpoint, a forum designed for user showcase of personal music could function smoothly should the forum also permit discussion of music in its entertainment sense...

Would this supposed issue be solved with a subforum of the entertainment forum, or would it be an entire section in Creative Art called Music? Or, alternatively, would a new subforum be added to The Exhibit Hall and Artistic Discussion, respectively, to accommodate music? I'm not sure such consolidation would accommodate smooth operation, though. I'm really just throwing ideas out there for the sake of discussion-progress.

What I was also wondering is if enough people would partake in this in order to make it worthwhile…considering it is a lot easier to create and share written prose/poems and digital art than music, could we therefore expect the forum, were it incorporated, to be even less active than its digital and lyrical counterparts?

As far as mere discussion of music is concerned (i.e. more as entertainment than art), I share your pain; I’m an avid fan of music and have tried to kick off music-related discussions in the Entertainment Forum before, and although they achieved mild success, I was still disappointed—the forum, in my experience, is definitely flooded by gaming discussions which absolutely is unfavorable as well as discouraging for those wishing to successfully kick off music discussions. On the other hand, do you think this is more because of a lack of a musical audience, or just a dominance of gamers?

My final note is that music is not the only type of entertainment which is clearly lacking; movies, anime, music, and some other themes which the Entertainment Forum was created to consolidate are also lacking; would a subforum of Entertainment for gaming only be more practical to promote discussions of all types of entertainment, as opposed to "pulling out" or "extracting" music for its own forum?

This is all very tentative, btw.



Anon Y. Mous -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/8/2011 19:10:37)

^in regards to your final note, Everest and Travis Touchdown in earlier posts in this thread have addressed brad paisley fan's suggestion for a gaming-only Entertainment Forum pretty thoroughly already

and as the Creative Art board already encompasses music and isn't exactly hopping as of now (neither is L&L), i'm not sure there is demand enough for starting a new music-only subforum, although the argument for a coding subforum in a separate thread in the Forum Suggestions could certainly be used as an argument for such a music subforum



Wilderock -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/8/2011 21:49:41)

Oh, that is my mistake, I only briefly read his post and at first I thought Everest was only addressing the idea of a subforum designed exclusively for music, not one exclusively for gaming. He mentioned that lack of responses is not a good reason to create a new forum, which suggests he was referring to the idea of an exclusive music forum, not a gaming one. Creating a new forum exclusively for gaming to handle the overwhelming percentage of gaming threads in contrast to other entertainment options would be a different idea-it would be a good reason, I'd argue-and would be completely justified if the consensus were that there are too many gaming threads for it to coexist with its counterparts.

How can we decide what 'too much' is, though? After all, that seems to be the main deciding factor. I guess administration doesn't see it as overwhelming enough, which it may very well not be. I am not here everyday, but I can tell you what I see right now and what I've historically noticed...and that would definitely affirm the notion that gaming threads significantly outnumber and outlive other forms of entertainment threads. How can that be solved?

The problem, to me, is that there exists a need to separate the gaming discussions from other types of entertainment because they simply drown out the forum; there already exists a seven day purge, and should a music thread fall to page 2, it is unlikely to recover (don't get me wrong, the hard purge is likely a good thing overall, just in this regard, it is unfavorable). If there is any hope for successful discussions about other forms of entertainment, I'd argue they'd likely need to be separated from gaming discussions.

The subforum for gaming probably would end up being more active than the EF forum, which is one of the concerns I had, but I decided that that is not necessarily a bad thing (of course I can't technically decide anything)...is it worth accommodating discussions of other forms of entertainment? Should gaming threads be placed into their own subforum, would other activity increase? Is it too risky and radical and unnecessary to test?

More importantly, if the overflow of gaming threads isn't causing the lack of music threads, what is? I think it definitely is contributing, and contributing adversely. There are simply too many games and too many possible discussions about games for it not to overwhelm and outlive other entertainment forms...especially since Anime is conjoined into one FAQ or whatever.

Of course I am completely satisfied with the idea simply not being immediately rejected, and being kept for consideration...what I am trying to do, though, is refine the suggestion so that it is worthwhile to consider.



Anon Y. Mous -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/8/2011 23:05:59)

^i think you may have misunderstood part of what Everest was saying

quote:

ORIGINAL: Everest

Because certain types of threads may be more popular than others does not mean the popularity of one causes the lack of responses in other types of threads, and that's really the question we'd ask before making a decision to separate out the material.

i see that you, Wilderock, believe that the plethora of gaming threads is hurting the duration of music threads. i agree with Everest in that i'm not so sold on this idea. perhaps if there were signs that there really was a possibility of animated and lengthy discussion of music, movies, not-gaming, etc enough to support an EF devoid of gaming threads, i would think differently, but as things stand right now, to quote Travis:

quote:

[R]emoving gaming from the rest of the EF would probably result in the EF running fairly dry and most people's attention to the subforum where it ends up.



Wilderock -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/10/2011 18:39:58)

I understand what Travis said, but what I am wondering is why that would necessarily be a bad thing...I'd argue that if it would help the music threads live longer (which would promote more discussion and activity in itself), or even merely accommodate their creation, it is worthwhile. Especially if it won't affect the video game discussions. However, I do understand why, from a moderation standpoint, consolidation is preferred to expansion...and how this idea is easier said than applied. My biggest problem is, though, that there are simply way too many potential discussions about gaming than any other form of entertainment, and how because of that, successfully posting about other forms is both unfavorable and discouraging.

Don't you think that fact factors into why people are hesitant to create threads about music and such, or why when they are created, not many people post in them (i.e. they don't expect anything worthwhile, no longer frequent the forum, etc)? Because if this overabundance of VG threads doesn't adversely factor into the other threads' lifespans and frequency, then I would admit, my argument would be completely invalid. But to me, it seems like that is not the case.

Perhaps it is simply that there isn't a large enough common audience for other types of entertainment, but judging from my historical experience, we have a pretty musically diverse and intuitive group of people here...that would just seem rather unlikely. I remember music being discussed very frequently in my most active days, but perhaps there are fewer active forumers now, as well. :/

How would we even determine if there exists a causal relationship between the lack of music/movie threads and the overabundance of gaming threads, anyway?

Anyway, I just hope the idea is kept in mind if, in the future, it becomes apparent that the vg threads are flushing out other, potential, very constructive discussions.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=15355407 <---ex



Travis Touchdown -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/11/2011 19:35:02)

The thing is, were gaming moved to its own subforum, there would be two possible results. Either it would it lead to an increased amount of activity for non-gaming related topics in the EF, or the EF would run dry because the majority of the attention is drawn to the gaming subforum. If the former happens, great. If the latter happens, then it was a waste. It's a tricky thing to figure out without trying it. From a personal standpoint, I don't agree with the notion that the gaming threads are "choking out" non-gaming topics-- I personally get the impression that, for the denizens of the Entertainment forum, gaming is something they want to discuss, and the others, not as much. There aren't enough active threads at any given time, gaming or not, to "drown out" any others as far as I can see. Back before the Entertainment forum, the OOC was flooded with both plentiful entertainment and bountiful non-entertainment based threads, to the point where they were beginning to have problems co-existing. It was because of this that the EF was born. I'm just not seeing a similar need as far as a new board exclusively for gaming.

Saying that, I think .Discipline and Starstruck may be on the right track with having a sub-forum for music in the arts section for those who like to create music.

@Below: Heheh, my bad. Halfway through writing my post last night I scrolled down to see the most recent ten to refresh my memory on who said it, and .Discipline was the final one so I credited him.



Starstruck -> RE: Music OOC Forums (12/12/2011 5:41:24)

The main difficulty that often arises when dealing with all talents, such as writing, drawing, and playing/composing music is that they are not easy to view. You cannot look at someone, even in real life, and immediately say "oh, that person is a good artist, writer, or musician." Online, it is a lot easier to tell the good writers from the bad ones, and often times the more artistically inclined will distinguish themselves early on, but there is no practical way to use or display the musical talent or interest you have without having a specific subforum for it.

I agree that, possibly because of its newness, it will not have as much activity as some of the other boards, but I know I will definitely frequent such a board, if one arises, and the same goes for several other people. The Entertainment Forum is not only crowded with video game discussions, it is video game discussions, and for the most part is filled with people who play video games and nothing else - after all, the forums require an AE account to join.

The EF is a difficult place to talk about music (it's like trying to have a heated and intelligent discussion on the meaning of life in a nightclub), but it's currently the only place where music can possibly be talked about, and that's not a good thing. We are better off in the end going with the general skeleton of forums and subforums I posted above and advertising a bit with a couple of forum announcements and a contest.

@Travis Touchdown: You mean I don't get credit for the idea at all?

[:D] Haha, just kidding!



Starstruck -> RE: Music OOC Forums (1/8/2012 19:45:15)

Well, it doesn't seem as though I am able to delete my own post in this forum, which is mildly upsetting but not extremely unpleasant/horrible and I'm pretty sure as long as I don't go overboard a double-post is perfectly reasonable. Especially when no response has been forthcoming.

I have just downloaded a music-editing application called MuseScore until my grandma can find her Finale software CD and get it to me somehow. I have a suspicion that she has found the disk and just did not give it to me/send it to me because I was sick on New Year's and elected to come home immediately rather than stay and be sick for a while afterwards. It is an adequate substitution and I am 75% sure it will transfer files between the two as well. So anyway I started using it and created an example of compositional framework. The piece is a 4-bar example piece of the kind that would end up on the Music boards and I'm testing the ways I can upload it to the forums.

It doesn't look as though I can add it to the post as a file, so that option will have to wait for another day. I found a site called zshare that let me upload the music to a url, much like tinyurl. I don't know if finding all these sites is particularly good for my antivirus, but ^_^';; here is the file I created. Be careful when clicking around because it's chock full of ads that say "DOWNLOAD" and "PLAY" - it should start automatically, as far as I know. With Ubuntu, I can't really tell because it claims I don't have the right plugin.

Music OOC Example Theme

It's not perfect, but as an example it fits quite nicely. If you can't hear it, then I can try to find an alternative way to upload it. I would really prefer to be able to upload the file to the forum itself - I'm pretty sure that's possible, but I don't know for sure.



Kain -> RE: Music OOC Forums (1/9/2012 18:37:27)

Regarding creating a new forum section for music sharing/creation, I'm afraid that wouldn't be possible at the moment for the same reason as a music-centered board under the OOC: There simply is not enough discussion/content for that in the forums right now. I can see at least two users interested in such section so far in this thread, but it's not feasible to measure the interest of an entire forum in two replies.

As a suggestion though, music threads can be very active (I remember one some months ago reaching the ten page lock in the EF), but they tend to need a more open approach. When you limit music discussion threads to specific genres, as some pointed in the thread, you're also limiting the people who will post there, and when you have a medium number of users frequenting a board that may mean the discussion will be over sooner than you would like.

Perhaps a music thread focused solely on music would show the interest of the forum members regarding this theme? Assuming it becomes popular, there might be opportunities to offer new areas to discuss music, but that would depend on the needs of the forumites and the forum.

I also like to note that I left your double post as it's a valid bump to the topic, since you offered new content to be discussed, contributed to the thread discussion and the topic may be of use for future discussions. Still, if you wish to merge the two post, feel free to send me a PM.



brad paisley fan -> RE: Music OOC Forums (1/10/2012 21:37:23)

Well there are two things-

-Isolated games forums and the other entertainment forum

or

- Music forums- Where you can talk about genres of music, breakout songs, billboard rises. And not only all of that stuff, even some instrument threads and feedback and Q and A threads on different instruments like guitar and you can discuss things like the best song you have done on that instrument. ANYTHING that has to do with music

And if there are any of those AK's here, I have been going around to a bunch of MTAK threads asking for guitar advice...hehehe



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