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Razen -> Vereriaz Comments (11/28/2011 20:18:05)

So, some of you may know that I have been working on a fantasy universe of my own, currently named Vereriaz.

Firstly, it's highly advisable if not necessary to read and understand my Guide to this specific Dimension of this Universe. It's QUITE handy.

Next post will be the main Zari present on the plane, then a post about the Ghost Knights. After that will be an account explaining Gahyl. And that'll be my first four posts...




Glais -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/28/2011 21:05:33)

Eh, I had a headstart on it :P
Anyways, seems cool so far. my only real complaint is the vastness of the timeline, it covers several million years as far as I know.
Though, I guess TransFormers does as well, and I don't seem to mind that, hmmmm >_>




Argeus the Paladin -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/28/2011 22:32:00)

Just skimmed through the first post.

I see the effort you've place in this work - it takes a lot of time, imagination and coordination to embark on the quest to build your own fictional universe, a journey that can sometimes very well take one's entire life or more to complete. There are many downfalls to such a world-building effort, since essentially you are documenting the history of a nonexistent world, having to fabricate everything and making sure they meld together enough to make sense, to not break logic and to not destroy the willing suspension of disbelief.

And you are, IMO, veering towards two of the most glaring pitfalls.

Emptiness and Derivation.

It is one thing to create a world. It is another to create a world that makes good sense and doesn't contradict itself and basic logic. It is yet another tier altogether to create one such world while not being just a mere copy of other world-builders before them. Here's the thing - many young writers of our age, eager to create their own fictional world and infuse it with a sense of larger-than-life grandeur and epicness, would vastly underestimate the sheer amount of effort and dedication required to make a world that both makes good sense and brings something new to the table. A seemingly vast and expansive timeline does not help if most of it is empty. A slew of exotic names, places and cultures does not help if they are so just for the sake of being exotic. And so on. What matters is not how your world stretches over a hundred thousand years or more, but rather what happened over those years. Without that, the entire scheme just appears empty and lifeless. What I have to say about this matter is this: "Until you've written an expansive history book for at least one of your races, you cannot consider your world alive."

The second thing is derivation. While doused in exotic names and new terms, your world contains a staggering number of tropes. Abusive Precursors Reality Warper who may or may not be walking the Multiverse created the world with The Five Races, become known as some sort of multidimensional gods and then sits around accepting tributes and watch the firework. The sheer quantity of tropes and derivation would grow even more if I read on to the various kinds of elves and their histories. Now ask yourself this: How many fantasy fiction authors have walked this path? How many have done it well? And how many more have created exactly what you did, an exotic setting with so many names that take pain to pronounce, and yet could still be summarized almost entirely in stock character and racial tropes?

While I respect your effort in creating this backstory, as it currently stands, it brings nothing new to the table. Then again, I am known for being absolutely merciless when it comes to derivativeness. My opinion, therefore, should be treated exactly as what it is - opinion from a zealous crusader - and should be taken with a sack of salt.




Glais -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/28/2011 22:39:50)

quote:

Though, I guess TransFormers does as well, and I don't seem to mind that, hmmmm >_>

Odd to quote myself, but Argeus had brought something to mind I'd not immediately noticed, but at the same time had noticed all along subconsciously. Whenever I had heard about the series, in my head I tied all the characters together into one central story. With the advent of this timeline, it breaks that up which is where a million years here and a million years in TransFormers differs.

TransFormers has thousands of characters which it uses to develop the story, in fact the majority of its plots and worlds are incredibly stupid, yet it has gained a large following. Why? People like the characters, TransFormers is in a phrase, a character driven series.

Instead of focusing so much on the world itself, you can use the characters instead to flesh it out. Them living their own lives and such will explain the world to us in pictures, as we're seeing them experience it for themselves.

Though this is in a large contrast to my first post, but it had oddly never occurred to me why the series felt somewhat empty until Argeus had pointed it out. The series thus far gives me a feeling of too many places without those necessary to populate them.




Argeus the Paladin -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/28/2011 23:45:28)

A fine example about character-driven world building is none other than the Elder Scrolls series (Yeah, I am high on Skyrim lately. Problem, officers?). The world in and of itself was not exactly novel at the time of conception - it was just yet another LotR rehash with all the stereotypical races emulated by pretty much every high fantasy writer since Tolkien. What made it stood out, what made it unique and captivating, what made it seem alive is because it had a slew of interesting figures to populate the world. The world in and of itself isn't all that interesting - the characters' exploits and failings is what made it what it is today.

And with that, I raise a glass of cheese mead to Emperor Pelagius III the Mad. [:D]




Razen -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 7:17:02)

Alright, so, Argeus, any suggestions as to how to avoid future situations of emptiness and derivation or fix my current one...? I'm not exactly one who can hear a new problem that I've never heard before and fix it indefinitelyGlai said one...I'll get on it...but, even the TES Series has their faults. TES is oddly enough kinda HOW I got inspired. Vereriaz all started from after finishing a Full Conversion to Oblivion, Nehrim. But, I always had one big thing I couldn't STAND with TES and that's how forced it is. Oblivion's main quest for instance, is alive in a few places for only a few seconds, and that's it. But, I'll need to work into devising interesting characters...fortunately the Sytril family already exists...and the Illifars. Now I need some for the Orcs or something. >_>

But, basically I wanted to set up storylines where it seemed less forced and a person would actually WANT to comply with the main quest. Maybe I'm crazy or have too high of hopes. ;-;




lordkaho -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 7:56:12)

Well, you should try making a short story involving any of these characters first, to add a level of intrigue to your readers.

Right now, this is no different from a watching a movie where they jam 10 minutes of exposition and back story in the beginning, which sadly only ends up being a pretentious attempt.

Proper world building is when you are told this small tale of certain people facing each of their trials in life, where the setting is just mostly in the background. Much like Star Wars (not the prequel triology), people keep mentioning the Clone Wars as if it was a long forgotten past, whilst some would talk about it casually. Some people would wonder what it was and why it happened, making them dig deeper into the series' history.

My personal favorite for world building would be Sora no Woto. You are introduced to a young girl who wants to join the army to learn music. It seemed the setting would take place in the past seeing as how technology is WW2 era at best, then you are shown fragments of the real past such as littered spider tank parts, 21st century architecture, and a bunch of other ruins. Then it would make you curious why there is a massive inflation in currency, Asian/European named people with Spanish nationalities, living in Switzerland (which is actually set in Japan), now write in French but don't understand Nippongo, etc.

And all of that was never really explained directly. Instead, the show gave you tiny pieces of a puzzle that when joined, makes a lot of sense. Hooray for speculah!

But I have to applaud you though. World building is very hard to pull up, and I'm surprised you managed to create something this huge by your own. I myself am struggling to even piece and build up a shady organization so that it would make some sense and would be at least convincing.





Argeus the Paladin -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 8:06:36)

The way I do my world building is normally like this:

1) Start small. You don't want to sit down at the table and suddenly going "Oh, oh, I want to create a Tolkienesque world! A complicated, interesting, awesome, epic world with elves and orcs and evil overlords and jerkass gods and...". That is a one-way ticket to derivativeness and blandness - just look at Eragon and the Maradonia Saga. Instead, what you would probably do is to pick a portion of the world you want to create. A very small portion, a scene, if you would like to call it as such. Such as the adventure of a hero, a skirmish between two countries, a diplomatic meeting between two monarchs or as simple as a day in the life of your average water elf. The most mundane might sometimes be able to yield excellent insight into the world you are trying to build.

2) Once you've chosen that particular 'scene' you want to elaborate on, expand it, starting from the most basic questions you'd ask yourself whenever you write a short story. What is the hero's background? How does that influence his choice of equipment, his companion, his attitude to the adventure, his goals and motivations and everything along those lines? Where is the adventure taking place and what is the story behind it? And so on. From the background of the hero, you can further expand on various aspects of his personality and reverse it back to create your dafinition of places and factions. Say he's a water elf born in a metropolitan sea port going to venture out because, say, fishing was turning unprofitable, and a cave not far from town was his destination of adventure. From that simple setting, you can expand into so many things.

- The water elves were so readily impoverished because they are economically backward, owing to, say, their patron gods disliking industrial production. From here you can easily concoct something about the water elven religion and culture based on that set of belief.
- The fishing might be bad owing to, say, a great battle with bio-magical weapon in the general region that killed off vast quantities of fish that year. Such a battle is fought between two sides with powerful mages and unethical generals, perhaps, as part of a larger war. From that, you can go on to elaborate the two factions involved, their conflicts and how they went to war, and what effect this has on the grand scheme of the world, etc.
- The cave is not far from the city, yet still promises loot - perhaps because of some reasons nobody dared to waltz in and take things? Beliefs? Fear of danger? If it is owing to a belief, elaborate on that. If that was out of fear of danger, where does that danger come from? Monsters? Traps? Treacherous terrain? The first two can go very well with your bestiary, while the latter melds in pretty well with any fictional-world-map-making effort.

3) Rinse and repeat until you've got a collection of short scenes, each elaborating outwards into a set of traits, characteristics and description of the world while remaining consistent with one another. This way, the world's details wouldn't be forced, since you are effectively building it from the ground up.

My closing words are those: "The real world is just a collection of many billions of diverse individual tales and stories, all of which consistent with one another. As long as your fictional world can achieve or at least promise that level of consistency and diversity, your world is alive, and vice versa."

EDIT: Or what LK said. I are ninja'd spectacularly.




Razen -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 17:18:13)

@LK: I haven't entirely done it on my own, as well...this is two years' of work, lots of reworking involved. But, thank you for your applaud.

Understood, the guide is less of what the universe's entire basis is. More of, my own little thing to refer back to when I want to do scenes.

I suppose it'll be best that go to the Drawing Board and start working on a scene...then expand. Probably start with a group moving and adapting to The Underspire, as they're massively underdeveloped, then maybe how they went onto make Seri'Rah and such.

The weirdest thing with Vereriazian "Elves", all except for the Water Elves, they're classified by their moralities and belief. Hence how a certain two characters of mine, a Dark Elf Assassin and High Elf Spellsword, can be full-blooded brothers. Glai knows them already, but they're Garenil and Zairos Alderi. Could definitely make a 'scene' with them to explain the High Elves and Dark Elves at the same time! :O /GeniusIdea

And an Arimiphite before the Ghost Knights made their fortress in Arimen, which will explain the Ghost Knights, the Salin, Arimen, and the Fall of Paradise. Geez, you two are totally right.

But, it's not exactly like I'm just "IMMA MAKIN' MIDDLE EARTH." with that, just thinking of where to start a basis, I always(Always) like to have my basic fallback stuff set up ahead of time.




Mortarion -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 18:24:23)

Hey Razen, remember that deal whe made,e xpect a PM soon with a link to all the things in wich I have been working on, and can I ask you something about the Zari? I mean, as far as I know, each Zari masters a different field, but in the cases like magic, war, etc, if a race was influenced by a particular Zari, like the Zari of Magic, who's name I can't remember, well would htat race develop an ability and/or affinity for magic?




Razen -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 18:45:36)

Typically, yes. Necessarily? No.

Ickakeins have a greater affinity for magic because Ickair is the closest to where the Arcane Realm borders Vereriaz and all of Ickakein blood(Who were all in Ickair in the beginning) took effect from it.

Although, most Zari would choose a race already affiliated with their subject(Thus, why there aren't exactly very many if any Ickakeins raving mad and crushing people in Thalack's Name). Suspension of belief takes effect there, it's not exactly common for someone to go breaking thought-up barriers. Though there is the occasional someone brave and wanting to go against the set rules...like the Ghost Knights.




Mortarion -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 18:59:31)

Okay, just asking to know if a concept I had thought for that thing you allowed me to do would work, tell me, could a Zari, even a minnor one, modificate a race in some form, for example, let's say that Thalack, he is hte Zari of war, right? Well let's say he finds a race wich is really violent, could he modify htem to make htem more violent and be in a constant berserker state for example?




Razen -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 19:11:14)

Dependent on how much is changed. If it's a small thing governed entirely by the Zari's subject, then yes. If not, then it'll require a higher class of Zari.

For Necrot(Zari of Necromancy), since I know that's exactly what you're referring to...he can pretty much only directly influence undead.




Mortarion -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 19:35:51)

Heh, well, I was just asking, because for my idea, the one you allowed me to do, can I speak freely of it, or sould I keep talking about it as I do now, well I was thinking that they already had a natural affinity for necromancy, and Necrot could have empowered it a bit, or that is illegal, impossible, etc?




Razen -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 19:47:13)

A natural affinity is fair ground.




Mortarion -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 19:52:14)

Okay, but that doesn't answers my other questions, could Necrot empower them?




Mortarion -> RE: Vereriaz Comments (11/29/2011 20:40:16)

Sorry, I tried to post from IPod and it sent it now, pleas erase this




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