Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (Full Version)

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BlueKatz -> Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 12:24:56)

I remember back there people complain a lot about Ultimate skills being "useless" but now it's quite good. I hate to admit SC is really good now. Don't even have to say about Mass, people have it up to 6-7 now. SS... well it's not that common. But everything has its reasons.

The main reason why Ultimate skill being used more often because we have more skill point at high level (back there only Mass is good because its stating damage is really high, and SS for the Rage reduction). Mage can regen MP so they can use SC well. I think BH is a bit way too annoying at keeping enemy from using any other moves to prevent Mass (Most of MP steal won't be too effective against a STR BH) and even MP'ed they still can do great damage or use other skills. The reason why Merc won't use SS since their MP suck. TLM use a lot of skill point. CH can loop Mass, BM don't have any good reason to use SC though >.>

Well that's my opinion about Ultimate skill. So what's your? Do you think it's good? You think Ultimate skill was underrated? Do you use Ultimate skill much. Do you think in future high level we will see a metagame shift here? Do you think it will be OP?

Note: Not a balance thread, I would like to see people opinion about those skills since it was so underrated back there



Lord Nub -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 12:43:39)

All skills saw improvement with the heal nerf so I totally agree. Was much more efficient to let your opponent waste energy on those skills before and just heal up and pwn them. Now it's much different.

Still having issues with them though as they still aren't very useful against the tanks. Without the involvement of crits they just sit there taking minimal damage while healing and the ultimates are a waste just as before.

The 20 damage minimum is my favorite thing about them atm until hopefully one day they upgrade the skills to keep up with all the enhancements and new items increasing armor so much. Eventually it will be just like beta or worse if skills aren't improved.



nico0las -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 13:15:52)

-With several skills being nerfed, most importantly Field Medic, we have been left to our own devices to win a battle.
Without the advantage of a powerful heal, we searched for a new means of regeneration and high damage, Ultimate attacks.

-We begin to use our ultimate skill because they are very useful in keeping one alive:
(surgical, massacre, and supercharge all heal you health and deal heavy damage).

-With more and more stat/skill points, we are capable of using a higher level ultimate without losing in other areas.
For example, a person with 5+ massacre back in beta (as far as I can recall) was basically done for.

-Also, for the Hunter/Mage cases, there are builds that can use it even more effectively. Mages
have 110+ dex builds, and even a 3 supercharge could deal 70+. Hunters, well, we've always used massacre, but with
our massacre nerf and BL nerf, we have used it higher and higher to stay alive. There are rarely high tech mercenaries.

-Finally, you have a minimum guarantee of 20 damage at level 1. That is beyond useful, especially for the non-variums.

@Below I know :( I switched from CH. I'm still part of the union, but I need to switch back. I probably will, once I get better energy claws.



Wootz -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 14:19:29)

Hahah, totaly.
Massacre is still overused, Massacre maxed is instant-kill button if you start first, which is around 80% 'cause you will in 9/10 battles have more Support. In my build, whatever the Resistance was, if the enemy had less then 70 HP he would die.

Even Wiseman uses an Max Super Charge.

By the way, Cyber Hunters are now totaly popular, must be The Cyber Union :)



rej -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 16:40:26)

surgical strike COULD theoreticaly be useful (mine does 82-88 at max level o_o) but the energy-damage ratio just isn't that great.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 17:03:35)

I agree. I just recently changed from my Max Surgical Strike/Technian build. Though it was a decent build. I usually hit in the 30s-60s with it. But the build required to much energy and took to long to use because I had to wait 3 turns to use it. So I changed to a new build now.

@rej Mine was like 78-84 and 84-90 with technian.



rej -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 17:26:11)

^ mine was 85-91 without and like 92-98 with technician. (yes, i found out i had my non tank items on when i was checking)



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 21:01:48)

^Thats pretty awesome you almost hit 100.



sylar67 -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 23:51:07)

SC was always gr8 i used it all time in gamma and i still use it but ppl dont know its ability ...



ND Mallet -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/11/2011 23:56:01)

@rej The damage isn't what people use Surgical for. It's for delaying rage for another 1-2 rounds that gives it a real usefulness.



Hallodeath -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/12/2011 3:10:30)

^ Here's how it goes:

Enemy:Yes,I have rage,so I'll bazooka him.
Narej: Yes,my Surgical Strike is ready *uses it*

Damage to enemy: 60+

Enemy: NUUUUUUUUUU



Remorse -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/12/2011 6:40:40)

Their is something about mascre I dont understand.


It seems these days the oppnents defence means very little versing a high level mascre its really weird,

If you would usally oonly hit 10, with a max masscre you can still hit 50+ its makes little sence,

They shouldt try make the skill more defence infulecned so people can create counters because counters are everything to avoid probelms often stop problems before the exist.

Atm the momet the only counters are hope you kill them before they kill you or energy drain but alot are becoming smart by bringing 2 mana boosts to battle.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/12/2011 8:26:15)

personally i think ultimate skills can be countered alot easier. if they have an ultimate skill u already know when they are using it, so simply take away their mana before they can.


quote:

It seems these days the oppnents defence means very little versing a high level mascre its really weird,

If you would usally oonly hit 10, with a max masscre you can still hit 50+ its makes little sence,

well i guess it makes as much sense as 66 dex (not counting smokescreen) block 112 dex several times.



sylar67 -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/12/2011 11:04:29)

^ thats cz massacre now works like deadly aim as told be4 in Dnz the % is added damage at about lvl 6 i think is a bout +100% the most used now , is a strike 100% x your primary damage (probably 33-34 ) damage witch is 34 + (20+)[for a str build] + the 100%(34) makes it 88 damage !!!!!! -40 defense lets say 27-32 + 13 hybrid .... still does 44 damage ...



nico0las -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/12/2011 20:01:40)

^Right.
I use a 6 massacre. I have a 21-26+34 primary damage.
I hit around 80 on enemies with 12-15 defense. The skill
becomes progressively more powerful not on your strength,
but on the level. A level 3 massacre used to be able to hit 100+,
now it hits 50 AT THE MOST.

@Below TlM is so powerful because it doesn't depend on one basic skill (or at least one that can be removed,
as Reroute and hybrid are the only things that keep the build alive) . It's ultimate does not work with it's builds.
Mind you, focus/tech/support mercenaries ALL use Surgical strike. Just because strength
mercenaries don't use it doesn't mean they don't need it.It's the exact same as Blood Mages and Supercharge.
It simply doesn't fit into the build(s). Strength TlM already has quite enough strength-based skills, they don't need another one.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Ultimate skill: Starting to shine? (12/13/2011 4:34:14)

One of the main reason TLM is stronger than others is because it dont need ultimate skill and it can counter the other ultimate skills with atom smasher.

if you use an ultimate skill build you 100% need to hit it or you will lose, which means you have to save atleast +45 energy for it :P



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