Support's classified agenda (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 11:58:40)

As some of you know, the support stat is the fourth stat in EpicDuel largely contributing to luck. Dexterity comes second with block ability. Although strength is most practical in this era, support would most likely claim the throne again because of its potential power. I have a discussion question for you forumers, "In your opinion, is support better fitted to luck or would it be better if support did not affect luck?"

In my opinion, support fills a great role in heavy weapons and skills ('artillery' etc...) and can contribute to defences ('defense matrix' etc...). Support is obviously one of the most perfect stats as it encompasses most battle formats and because of this, very diverse. For some reason, support players dropped out and strength players stepped to the challenge. Perhaps it was the unreliability of the luck factor in support which allowed even a strength user's gun to hit hard without deflection. I think support as a stat should be buffed and nerfed. In my opinion support could be stronger offensively and defensively but without the influence of luck:

quote:

Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries, increases chance to go first, critical strike, deflect, and rage rate; reduces chance to be stunned and enhances certain skills.


I find in some cases, that support is just too OP (sup-tact-merc with smoke, artillery, bazooka), and some cases it is simply a gamble and often a failure (support bounty hunter/support blood mage).

All classes should be able to administer each of the stats to an extent, but no class should have to be unstable or a lottery. In my opinion support could be worked on to be a very tactical stat.



Remorse -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 13:32:51)

I see no reason to change it,

The only reason why people have gone off support is because they need as much stats as possible to either a) gain a constant supply of power by spamming str or b)spam dex and tech to ensure you can last agianst those with constant power.

The reason why support has not been as efective is because support builds can not defeat the current popular builds, it can not keep up with strs power or it cannot break through a tanks defence (unless crits are out of control)

What doess need to be changed is the amount of stats everyone has, it needs to be reduced to stop this battle of the power builds. and during the process balance will be fixed so support will be fine agian.



.Nikzat. -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 14:38:44)

No need to do it... if u have 10 supp you cane crit,defl more than if u had 100 support, becuase the game got into LuckDuel not EpicDuel..



Lord Nub -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 14:50:23)

I still believe we need the introduction of the 0 to help out with this. Most of the time I lose a match due to multiple 4% block rates, which is the minimum regardless of the dexterity attribute, and I fail to roll a single block at 20% plus.

The same goes for support as far as crits and deflects. Also the other side of this argument would state that non-variums and lower levels would always be at 0% chance to hit, or whatever the case may be, and it would be unfair. That is why, and I will use Dexterity as an example, the current 2 points per percent to block and hit could be increased or they could perhaps increase the base chance.

If players spam support they have less of a chance of hitting and blocking which is the way it should be. 150 support should not block 3 times in a match with 50 dex against 110 and 40 support should not be deflecting 150 support left and right. The RNG needs an overhaul and this is something the players have been asking for for quite some time now. Allow our builds and strategy to do the work, not some outrageous luck or predestined amount of blocks/crits/deflects.



FrostHS -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 15:16:21)

@Nikzat Not LuckDuel, EpicLuck T_T



.Nikzat. -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 16:44:30)

^Lol even better :D



nico0las -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 20:01:15)

Surprisingly enough, support seems to be the most balanced stat in the game.
It's connection to luck is always a good reason to raise it. It will also give you that first strike.
When you look at the other stats, you always pay the price for buffing one:

Strength: High damage, low-average defenses
Dexterity: Low energy defense/damage output
Technology: Often considered the weakest stat, it only benefits 5 focus/tank builds.
Support: First strike, low stun chance, critical hits, auxiliary buff, deflection, and rage +Very powerful skills.

It's interesting that support mages/hunters had no need to fear low defenses, as reflex boost and defense matrix buff with
support. These are the most important buffs available in game ATM (due to the amount of physical strength builds).
Mercenaries had support for two reasons: Damage output (+critical hits) and healing.
The support builds were undoubtedly the most powerful builds in ED.

It's a shame support took such a blow after the nerfs. I miss being a support mage.
You are correct, it is, ironically enough, a very tactical stat.




AQWPlayer -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 20:41:46)

If Tac Mercs weren't so OP anymore, heal could improve with support again, just at a much slower rate. If you use a support build at this moment, there are far too many disadvantages, including 3 turn aux cooldown, ultra high hp builds, yeti bot, etc. So basically support builds don't work unless you are a TLM :/



goldslayer1 -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 21:05:32)

quote:

So basically support builds don't work unless you are a TLM :/

not true. i used a support mage about a week ago, and did about 500 wins in 2 days at 97%

quote:

I still believe we need the introduction of the 0 to help out with this. Most of the time I lose a match due to multiple 4% block rates, which is the minimum regardless of the dexterity attribute, and I fail to roll a single block at 20% plus.


agreed, its like the enemy has 4% and gets 3-4 blocks in the match. while i have 30%+ i fail to do a block in the match at all.

IMO the whole block calculation system is messed up.

all it takes for u to make ur enemy have 4% is a different of 12 dex. (12 dex = 6% and base block % is 10)

while having more dex gives u higher block chance, it wont reduce his block chance.
either make a 0% block chance, or add a connect chance for every 4 dex i have while my enemy is at 4%.



kittycat -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 21:59:56)

Support build facts:

-uses auxiliary of damage, usually strength is lower. Higher concentration of blocking, stunnining, etc.
-Yeti Bot puts it at a disadvantage, and high HP builds cannot be broken through. TLMs may have a chance due to 2 passives.

Strength Build facts:

-deals good damage, however
-sacrifices a hefty amount of defense and resistance, making luck a probable issue.
-risks blocking, nullified when facing tanks.
-good amount of damage through rage.

Technology build:

-relies on EP
-good damage w/ EP used, weak to moderate damage when not on EP
-low concetration of Dexterity, with armor defense and HA replacing defense
-uses robot and 5 focus to not rely on EP

Dexterity build varies.



Lord Nub -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 22:07:53)

I'm finding that this game is becoming more and more irritating solely because of the block/crit/deflection system in place.

As a 2v2 player, I don't mind fighting 2 34 full varium players with a 29 non varium or a quitter for that matter, but when I'm blocked at a 4% rate it becomes very frustrating and makes me want to quit this game.

They seriously need to overhaul this system and allow our builds and strategy to do more otherwise experienced players will continue quitting. Everyones main reason? The aggravation that comes with these low percentile luck streaks.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/13/2011 22:32:23)

@lord
i know what u mean man, i have a 112 dex build for solo and i get irritated when blocked by a much lower dex enemy.
and it does not matter how much str i have.
my build has 112 dex, and 125 hp. u think i can have as much str as a str user? of course not.

check this post i made, maybe u like the idea.
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=19887717



Yo son -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/14/2011 3:09:00)

the game turned into epic luck; and sadly the luck isnt being overly influenced by the amount of support. Every stats in this game is messed up except strength and technician.

The problem with Dex and support is that if a player has more then the expect something and when that expectation fails they usual end up disappointed or very mad.

Example- If I have a significant higher amount of support in a match then I expect to go first, deflect more. or crit more in a duel. Or if I have higher dex in a match then I expect to either block more or hit more.

when these expectations do not result from a match then players often get pissed and in all honesty, is not the players fault; if he or she is spending 70 skill points or more on dex or support and the purpose the spent those points on these attributes fails or reverses where the other player who did not spend their skill points on those attributes and still get the advantages of those skills over them; then should the not be some what irritated?



seangchea -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/14/2011 12:38:46)

SUPPORT ftw, it has helped me out in so many battles so yes it is a luck factor and keep in game



gangster a -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/14/2011 14:04:13)

i hope support gets a buff cause i was awsome with support builds 94 percent win record.



endtime -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/16/2011 6:42:41)

Support was good when it affected Field Medic. Now it's totally useless because it only gives a weapon that can be used every 3 turns, while strength gives a weapon that can be used all the time. Luck isn't something to depend on, so support isn't very advantageous. It's main purpose at this point is to ensure first turn, meet the 5 focus requirements, or meet skill and equipment requirements.

Also, I agree with Lord Nub about taking away the minimum percentages. It's totally ridiculous when people with 50 dex lower than you blocks you. Keep the game less luck based while ensuring luck can be used for balance, by taking away minimum chances. A person who spam other stats and avoid dex should not get the advantage of 4%.



dibas89 -> RE: Support's classified agenda (12/16/2011 14:19:25)

This game is so based on luck that they just can put a stat named luck...



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