RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (Full Version)

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Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:10:01)

Plasma Cannon and plasma rain both improves with tech and if energy shield only improves
resistance not tech as well then well it is quite obvious that there will be no
way to increase the damage of these two skills since the Blood mage don't have debuff
to increase damage we could add these two to useless skills.

"Artillery Strike - Remove stat requirement

Bring it in line with other multis"

Artillery strike is one of the most powerful multis Plasma Rain is the weakest so
are they making Artillery strike weaker to bring it in line with Plasma rain.


"Improve Fireball & Plasma bolt

Slightly weaker early levels, scales much better mid-high levels"

Since the tact merc is getting a passive physical armor fireball will be a useless skill
against them. They have that new armor at max and have and energy armor that would mean
energy skills and physical skills will basically be useless.

One positive thing is taking away Technician from the Cyber hunter and the tact mercs

it will help stem the bot abuse from those two classes.

Blood mage getting another skill from another class to further link them together
as the tact merc and cyber hunter gets new passive skills while keeping the
two best debuffs in the game. Since it is quite clear they can't come up
with new skills for the Blood Mage but basically making that class more of the Hunter
class then a mage class, maybe they should just get rid of it and have only
one mage class, two merc classes, and two hunter classes.

So all of you thought my ideas were crazy and over the top but look at the changes
that the programmers thinks will improve the Blood Mage class.




Wootz -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:13:33)

Really Hun. Its rarer to see a Cyber Hunter with a Bot build then an Support Bounty Hunter.
Actually, Energy shield is better for Blood Mages, because they had two STAT gaining skills. And every class should have 1 defense/resistance gaining skill and 1 stat gaining skill. Or Only Defense/Resistance gaining skill if the class has an passive armor for them.

Blood Mage's were, actually still are, in the lead of defensive skills and that isn't fair towards the other classes, so that change is completly acceptable!




Lord Nub -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:21:07)

Sweet was a little worried I may not win just cause my name haha.

Can't wait to see how the new passive armors and the bolts work out!

Little early to say who the new powerhouse will be but it's looking like CH... High dex + SA = Tons of blocks + energy armor and passive energy armor with unlimited energy basically from Static = ultimate tank??

Who knows...




Wootz -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:27:10)

I already said since it came, Cyber Hunters will be Over-Powered because they are too well made.
Who doesn't found looping an Massacre powerfull? I looped Max Massacre, so, really, noice.




supermasivo -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:29:42)

It depends on how many res stats will that plasma shield will give them... i dont think more than 10, but still being a lot res stats to make a very good tanking plus defense matrix... Scharge... puffff i think ima change to CH next update :p
Having a lot of good variety of multiple builds to make..., high dex multi spam, high str massacre spam, tanking... and more more =P
very NICE indeed.




Calogero -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:32:07)

quote:

Blood Mage's were, actually still are, in the lead of defensive skills and that isn't fair towards the other classes


BM's have no energy steal and no defence nerfs




Wootz -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:38:55)

Andy, you don't understand what I said.

Blood Mages have Reflex Boost and Techinician, which gives aditional stat points, the other classes have one skill that gives stat points and one skill that gives Defense/Resistance points, excluding Mercenary class because it has an passive shield. The other classes do not have both skills to give stat points and is unfair.




AxeOFury -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:39:28)

Justice!




Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 17:47:40)

Wootz, That change is acceptable to you because you are not a Blood Mage Dex improves technician and support improves energy shield, how many support Blood mages do you see, none, we have the stats spread across strength, dex, and tech. A skill make work fine for one class but it has shown it does not for another class. Check the description of the Blood Mage does it say defense form of the tech mage or aggressive form of the tech mage so how can you be aggressive if you always defending. they might as well as allow the Blood Mage to have two side arms since that is the only power they will have left but of course they probably will take away Deadly Aim next.

The Cyber Hunter may not have a bot build but the ones with the Gamma Bot have mid to high level technician to increase the damage of the gamma bot as well as to make energy attacks less effective.

From the beginning of Delta they truly have not come up with new and unique skills for the Blood mage class just gave them skills from other classes and when they see that a skill is too powerful for another class that the Blood Mage has and they decide to adjust it, the Blood Mage gets punished. If they see that a skill is not as effective as it should be for the blood mage they say it is working as it should be while giving improvements to other classes.

I will stay a Blood mage but the Blood mage will be less desirable for other players to consider becoming and will make the Blood Mage class a true minority class.

I hope these mission will give a huge war point increase because 24 points and the low bomb drop is not helping exile at all. The curse at 11% I get twice per match but the bomb drop went back down to two per 100 so maybe they should have made the bomb drop happened during the match.




drodrae -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:03:44)

My opinion:

TlMs = Changed, not nerfed AT ALL. Seriously, Bloodshield? For 5 Turns?

CH = Buffed, and in an alarming way. Possibly the CH Era if other players besides the veterans knew how to use it.

BM = WOOH! Why don't we just call this the BH-TM Mutant?

BH = No change, balanced. :D

Merc = Forgotten, useless removal of AS req. when HA still needs it.

TM = Minimal buff, Caster build improvement, nothing else.


If you look closely, the devs are taking most of the skills from BH since they are currently the only class considered balanced.

Already at 32k. I think I'm gonna switch to CH soon. This new passive plus SC means another TlM like combo, less reliable energy gain but higher reward. Throw in Max Massacre and BEHOLD, dead tech mages EVERYWHERE.




Calogero -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:04:23)

quote:

Blood Mages have Reflex Boost and Techinician, which gives aditional stat points, the other classes have one skill that gives stat points and one skill that gives Defense/Resistance points


then by that rule, BloodMages not having an energy Drain = Unfair...




WhiteTiger -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:11:34)

First off, congratulations to all the winners!

Second, onto balance changes. I think all the changes are great, except for replacing technician with blood shield. I don't know about everyone else, but I think blood shield has to be one of the worst skills ever. The point of recovering lost resistance is so you won't take as much damage and lose less health. As a non-varium, I don't have much resistance or dexterity. A simple level 5 malfunction could get me down to 12-15 resistance. To regain those resistance points, I would have to invest 6-7 skill points into blood shield, and cut around 10% of my health. My next turn after I used blood shield, I'll be down to around 50 HP in 1vs1 or 30 HP in 2vs2. Having to heal, since I'm under 50% HP, I lose another turn without inflicting damage on the opponent(s). After that, I could either use my auxiliary or multi until I die the next turn in 1vs1, and in 2vs2 I would probably already be dead. So, whether I use blood shield or not, I would die at around the same time, which ultimately defeats the purpose of using the skill. To be honest, I really don't know what a better replacement would be, but I've salvaged close to 50k credits, so I'll probably be switching back to TM soon.

@Below Yeah, I know it's only useful with builds that have high HP, but as a non-varium it's impossible for me to raise my HP without levelling up to 35, which won't happen for quite some time. Varium tanks usually have plenty of dex, tech and HP, so using blood shield can be beneficial.




drodrae -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:24:59)

@White Tiger
Bloodshield is actually useless ONLY if the enemy has one Energy Damage source. But when he uses two, it's worth it. Another thing, Bloodshield is generally only useful with builds that have more than 95 HP. You only start to benefit from BS at the 2nd turn, that's why it lasts 5 turns, a turn longer than other shields. So to actually make BS useful, you'd need around 109-125 HP with decent def to deter the enemy from using P dmg.

@Andy123
I agree. Though I've only played AGAINST BMs, they seem to basically have the same problem as MERCS; Not enough energy for skills. Include another problem; No energy drainer. And another one: No squishifier(Debuff). They're supposed to be AGGRESIVE, HIGH damage dealers. [8D]




Jekyll -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:35:46)

Yes! I won! <3 Congrats to everyone else who have spent time to decorate their house and won too!

About balance, looks like I may finally return to 1v1!




Lectrix -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:40:50)

Balance update at last! These new changes look promising, though I'm not too keen about having Technician replaced by Energy Shield. Guess I'll just have to wait and see how things play out.




rej -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:45:05)

Hopefully, "when-it's-ready-o-clock" comes earlier since the year has changed.




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:48:55)

TLM - Replace Maul with Stun Grenade
Keeps stun skill; removes easy, low cost damage skill
Unblockable but higher cost toss up yes fair yes
TLM - Replace Hybrid Armor with Mineral Armor (New skill - passively gives physical defense)
Reduces inherent tankiness of TLM
I'll call it once its live
TLM - Replace Technician with Blood Shield
Reduces ability to be more tanky + increase damage output + heal
I personally love this skill as the health cost does hurt you as the incoming energy damage becomes a joke
CH - Replace Technician with Plasma Armor (passively gives energy resistance)
Gives them a reliable passive with better defensive options
I'll call it once its live
Bunker Buster/Plasma Canno
Weaker at lower levels, stronger scaling for high levels
scaling fixes balance issues 'nuff said
BM - Replace Technician with Energy Shield
Gives BM higher energy resistance
Bubble for BM's no argument here
Artillery Strike - Remove stat requirement
Bring it in line with other multis
Fair is fair
Improve Fireball & Plasma bolt
Slightly weaker early levels, scales much better mid-high levels
more power for my build i guess




Laces -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 18:52:56)

Nuuuuuuu...more people will come to CH [:(] I liked being one of the few CH who was a CH before this balance update. I'm happy though. CH is getting a buff though I had not expected this. I was thinking that it was gonna be a small buff but hey, I like it :).

And to clarify, CH does not have 3 passives. It in fact as one. SA is a pure luck skill and requires a pretty high support requirement. SC is not a passive and tends to get blocked quite a bit if you are smoked (Defense Matrix does not "repair" your dexterity after getting smoked.) Plasma shield is really the only "true" passive.

We shall see. Although I hoped BM would get a better buff, we'll see how things play out. I'm looking foward to seeing more BM on the field as they have the potential to be very very good.





Wiseman -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 19:07:49)

Just want to explain the changes, and toss out a few points that haven't been mentioned yet.

Giving TLM Blood Shield does a lot more than just change their resistance skill, it also takes away their ability to improve Smokescreen and bot damage. Also since blood shield requires HP instead of energy, reroute does not help the skill at all. Someone said that TLMs have frenzy to get the hp back, however before now they were receiving the energy for technician back with reroute, and didn't even lose a turn in the process, at least with frenzy they use up an extra turn.

The new passive armors are basically just hybrid without the ability to switch, though I believe all of the passive armors (Hybrid, Mineral, and Plasma) are being nerfed a bit.

Cyber hunter may be a good class to tank with, however unlike TLM they have to use a turn to get energy back, and static charge can be blocked, so it's not as reliable as reroute. One reason we don't want plasma grenade improving with Dexterity is because of possible overpowered tanking abilities of CH using High Dex, Malf, Mineral Armor, and Plasma Grenade. Also maxing out Plasma Armor, Static Charge, Shadow Arts, and still having other skills will be very difficult. Having enough strength to use static charge effectively wont be easy either, since Plasma Armor will require tech. It may indeed be possible to tank with CH, but we have tested that build ourselves and it's not as strong as TLM tanks where. One thing is certain though, Cyber Hunters will be stronger with this change and it will be a new and interesting challenge to fight them, after all, this is the first class to have a constant resistance boosting skill. With CH having energy resistance, TLM having physical defense, and regular Mercs being able to utilize both, choosing between physical or energy weapons should be a bit more difficult.

As for artillery strike: All AoE skills scale at the same rate and have the exact same power, we buffed the others to be equal to artillery a while back, so it's only fair to remove the requirement on artillery strike. Mercs and TLMs will still have to deal with the DEX requirements on Hybrid and Mineral armor so it wont be that easy to bypass the DEX issue, also since Field Medic was changed, support itself still isn't as overpowered as it once was.

Maul received it's full damage potential at level 1 and worked best with builds that already had high strength to begin with. Basically it took high damage builds and increased the damage further while needing low energy and having a chance to stun. While this works with the the Mercenaries skill tree, it was a bad idea on a class that already has a way to boost their damage (smokescreen) and a large energy pool (reroute), regular Mercs have neither of those advantages. Basically Maul was built with the Regular Mercenaries shortcomings in mind, and was never meant to be on a class with Debuffing or Regen skills. Maul was a big problem on the TLM skill tree, as it allowed them to do strong damage with very low energy cost while already having high damage capabilities and a large energy pool.

Putting stun grenade in its place does 3 things.

First: It means TLMs will have to pay more energy to use the skill (it starts at a higher energy cost than Maul). This means reroute will be less effective and they will probably need more energy which will drop some of their other stats.

Second: Unlike Maul, Stun grenade is weak at level 1 meaning that in order for it to be useful a TLM will have to invest more points into the skill.

Third: Maul was best used with offensive builds on a class that already had good offensive capabilities, Stun Grenade on the other hand, forces them into a more defensive build if they want to utilize stuns. In my opinion Maul was never a problem as far as tank builds are concerned, the problems with Maul steamed from strength builds.

Lastly I'll talk about adding Energy Shield to Blood Mage, it wasn't really a Buff or a Nerf, we just decided that two stat increasing skills on one class had the potential to be overpowered if used correctly. Also those skills where never meant to be together, we planned on switching Technician out for Energy Shield a long time ago (about the same time that we gave Blood Mages Reflex Boost) but sadly we couldn't fit it in at that time, and the change was delayed up till this point due to more pressing balance issues and events.

There are some advantages to having energy shield over technician, a couple of them are that Blood Mages can probably hold off Energy based Cyber Hunters, and Super Charge Mages a bit easier than before.

About the Regular Mages being buffed, we do eventually plan to change one more of their skills to be usable with swords and staffs, however a problem in the code is preventing us from making that change at the moment. I don't think any other plans are in the works for Tech Mages, however if you think about it, now that Tech Mages are the only class with Technician, that in itself can be considered a buff (it allows them to use +5 focus bot builds more effectively than other classes).




Jekyll -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 19:09:33)

I have mixed feelings about this update. Class jumpers will be revealed, but I don't want people to go around saying that my favourite class, Cyber Hunter, is OPed and accuse me of being an abuser. :/




Laces -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 19:13:38)

^Same. I've been a CH since the new classes were released. :3 Don't want people to think I'm a class jumper :(




Wootz -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 19:15:01)

Thank you for explaining Blood Mage's changes better then me, Wiseman! :)
Actually, Trans and Me already found something that might make the Energy Shield a great buff in one of builds. I'll PM you what we got.




rej -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 19:15:36)

For various reasons, the release makes me suspect that Cyber hunters are about to become the next flavor of the month. hmm. Now wouldn't that be a huge shocker?

If you didn't detect the sarcasm in this post...then... hehe....




One Winged Angel1357 -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 19:21:49)

Wiseman thanks for the word my friend was complaining about some TM hate but thanks for clearing that up.





BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= DNS - January 04, 2012 Frysteland Final Phase An Epic New Year! (1/4/2012 19:22:25)

Ok... overrate a good one BUT this:

quote:

BM - Replace Technician with Energy Shield
Gives BM higher energy resistance


This is TOTALLY STUPID. SERIOUSLY! This BOTH ruin BM and make it OP. First it nearly completely destroy the skill combination BM has and FORCE BM to use STR ALL BUILDS and even make it more useless in 2vs2. Second BM vs TM (idk about CH) is possible one of the most one sided battle ever that a veery good build and completely full Varium BM will always beat TM (even Sup unless you Crit and go first - the only TM build can beat BM) and now THIS. THIS is STUPID and doesn't solve ANY OTHER BM problem but make it even HARD COUNTER TM. WHY!? Why do something that unnecessary????

quote:

TLM - Replace Technician with Blood Shield
Reduces ability to be more tanky + increase damage output + heal

I think people will realize how good Blood Shield is when putting a lot of point into it (it's only good if you invest into it) 5 Turns is a lot and cost nearly nothing




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