how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (Full Version)

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Prime Assassin -> how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 11:49:48)

as the title says. how to slove everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. the key to this is hiding losses or win%. cuz i've relised. i wouldn't even complain about 2 vs 2 if none saw my win%. and i'm sure it's like that for many other people. now this isn't a 2 vs 2 thread. it's for every battle mode. people wouldn't care how unbalanced a game is if win%s wern't there or if losses were hidden. i persnally love my win% and i care about it so much but thats why i mostly complain becuase my win% goes down becuase someone else has an huge advantage. this would also stop non variums complain aswell. i personally think this would be a win/win situation.

pros :more creativity
less complains on balance
less complains on luck
allows players to use underperforming builds without worrying about win%
less pressure on the devs to balance the game
happier community
less elitist attidutes
new players don;t quit the game thinking the have a bad record and thinking they suck.
people with high% will no longer have to worry about constantly tying to increase their win%

more pros related to 2 vs 2.
no need getting angry over noob partner
no need getting angry over afk partners
no need getting angry about losing becuase it's not your fault
no need gtting angry over unfair matchups
no need getting angry over runners.

cons: won't show win%
people you think could be good could be bad becuase u can't see their win%

discuss here and give me feed back i want to know what everyone else thinks. thanks PRIMAL ASSASSIN



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 11:56:44)

This still doesn't fix the balance problems that have been created every since the last balance update. Every since then EVERYONE has created and risen with these pure spam builds that are way to OP. The only way to counter them is too use another spam build because balance builds will lose epicly.



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 11:59:00)

but if losses weren't shown or win% shown then why would u care if u lose a battle? get where i'm going with this now?



Ranloth -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:01:05)

Yes you would care. If you lost 10 matches in a row while others won 10 times and lost only 2 or 3, surely there's something wrong with your build?



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:05:27)

^ what are u on about? where are u getting 10 losses in a row from? this has NOTHING to do with builds. this is to do with win%s and losses. if u lose and it doesn't appear on ur record why would u care.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:08:23)

@Prime Assassin Because you are still losing over and over again. I keep constantly running into BMs and TMs. If you don't block BMs you will die. If you don't go first against TMs you will die. Even if you didn't have loses on your record its no fun in losing 10 battles in a row.



Stabilis -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:11:01)

So you are suggesting to hide information no matter how insignificant to the public?



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:11:35)

well ofcourse it's not fun lossing 10 times in a row but being realisitic how often does that even happen? hardly ever.



Ranloth -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:18:45)

Hardly ever? Run into CHs 10 times in a row as one of basic classes. I got owned as full Varium TM all the time until I got lucky enough to survive. Please get your facts straight, as you might be looking from one class perspective not the other. Or play as Merc, still not possible unless you get weak players?
10 was just an example btw. And not showing loses is about the builds - if you see yourself losing a lot, reason is mainly your build nothing else. You can't win fights with maxed Deadly Aim, maxed Heal and Maxed Intimidate (using TM as example) without having a Gun, basic Energy. EMP will kill your Heal, no Gun renders DA useless and Intimidate is debuffed by bots or they resort to skills/Aux. [:D]



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:28:05)

^ i'm a tech mage and get 90% in daily 2 vs 2 and i'm for removing win%s trans ur just a troll. u honestly think u know everything when u clearly don't. even in the balance discussing thread u had a bunch of facts wrong.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:31:58)

i have to agree with primal here.
i wouldn't be complaining over luck if it didn't influence me with 5-10 losses in a row a couple times a day.

perhaps its much better to count the amount of battles done instead of wins and losses.

but for faction stuff, it would just be wins. and same for dailies.
but all time boards would be battles.


quote:

Hardly ever? Run into CHs 10 times in a row as one of basic classes. I got owned as full Varium TM all the time until I got lucky enough to survive. Please get your facts straight, as you might be looking from one class perspective not the other. Or play as Merc, still not possible unless you get weak players?

troll much? the only one who needs to get their facts straight is u.
this thread isn't about builds. its about the win/loss records.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:42:13)

I agree that trans can be a bit overzealous [and repetitive] but I don't think he is a troll at all.
eventually he will realise that saying the same thing over and over is just as ineffective as not saying anything at all.

@Primal Assassin: what TM build do you use in 2v2 btw?

ON TOPIC
why is anyone against their win/loss ratios being hidden from other players? it's not like theirs any credibility to most 1v1 records anyway.



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:45:23)

^ i'm up for it becuase i only complain becuase i get an lose becuase it;s not my fault (unfai matchups i 2 vs 2, luck bad partners ect)

the build i use is caster tech mage i'm at oz world 8 epic if u wanna have a look.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:48:45)

quote:

why is anyone against their win/loss ratios being hidden from other players? it's not like theirs any credibility to most 1v1 records anyway.

well for one, im a very competitive person.

and the problem with ratios is, it stops people from using the builds they want to use.
it stops creativity to a certain degree because people want good ratios and decent speed.
if i make a creative build but doesn't meet the standard i want. im not gonna use it.
im sure the same goes for many others.

so having wins and losses removed and just keeping battles would be a good idea.
and battles can be used to reflect the ranks aswell. (since i doubt they will take that out.)

if wins and losses weren't shown
i would use the old str merc.
why? because for me it was my very first competitive build when i got active last year in january with the old CAD.
for me it was one of the best builds. even if it gets 70%-75% now. i wont use it simply because of that.
but if losses were removed. using it wouldn't be a problem. see the point now?



PivotalDisorder -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:49:04)

quote:

^ i'm a tech mage and get 90% in daily 2 vs 2 and i'm for removing win%s trans ur just a troll. u honestly think u know everything when u clearly don't. even in the balance discussing thread u had a bunch of facts wrong.

if you're using one of the new powerbuilds for Mage then can you really use your win ratio as justification for your argument?

@Goldslayer1: you would still be able to see your own win/loss ratio, just others wouldn't be able to view it. it would solve both issues I think.
1: Players who would love to be creative but don't want to be seen as a bad player with bad win/loss ratio can now do so,
2: You could still track your own win/loss ratio as you are testing your new builds.



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:51:18)

^ considering i had the "newpower tech mage build" a month ago yes i can. me and icen were the 1st 2 people to even use them . then people started to copy and the build got around.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:52:04)

quote:

if you're using one of the new powerbuilds for Mage then can you really use your win ratio as justification for your argument?


actually i wouldn't call it a power build.

its more like a clucth build. VERY slow. alot like the multishot bh/ch that also does 90% in 2 vs 2.
but them builds are very slow. and most enemies dont really know what to do, because they aren't seen much.

if it was an expirienced enemy, he would know that he has to EMP 2-3 times and then the techmage damage out put becomes the same damage output of like a lvl 1.



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:54:22)

what gold said. this post is simply saying. it allows that creativity again. so people can use the old builds they love without caring about win %.



goldslayer1 -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 12:59:00)

quote:

@Goldslayer1: you would still be able to see your own win/loss ratio, just others wouldn't be able to view it. it would solve both issues I think.
1: Players who would love to be creative but don't want to be seen as a bad player with bad win/loss ratio can now do so,
2: You could still track your own win/loss ratio as you are testing your new builds.


personally i would just rather have the whole thing removed.
NPCs wouldn't be such an issue.
and maybe then they could do ally link team NPCs. and jugger team NPCs.

but i would still keep using high % knowing that the record still exists. thats just me tho.

like i said i would just prefer to remove the whole thing. and leave only the battles number.
disconnections and bad partnerships wouldn't be such a problem then



MasterWarrior. -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:05:31)

I like the idea very much



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:07:33)

@gold yup exactly if this was to happen in game it would be a win for everyone.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:21:47)

quote:

^ considering i had the "newpower tech mage build" a month ago yes i can. me and icen were the 1st 2 people to even use them . then people started to copy and the build got around.

@Primal Assassin: just wow. first off, you don't know every single tech mage. period. therefore your "proof" of being the first to make the build is purely speculation and mostly arrogance.
Plasma Bolt's power was buffed in early January. one of the main reasons their wasn't tons of mages playing it is they were too busy being OP TLM's and then CH's. notice though how I
didn't call your build OP? suppose you didn't. I just called it a power build.

@Goldslayer1: Yeah I see your point. I doubt they will ever scrap those kinda statistics on a game that is driven by PvP though, would be nice if NPC wins didn't count at least.
would be hilarious seeing certain players wins plummet 85% or something crazy



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:23:59)

^ and who else apart from icen did u see with caster beta mage before me? (not including beta times) wait? whats that? none....



PivotalDisorder -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:28:19)

I've levelled 8 characters to 30-34 and I faced tons of powerful tech mages with beta item/s that 2-3 turned me sometimes.
all that's changed is the energy cost of those skills and that so many players have jumped ship to TM for the SC or Tech power builds.

their isn't this legion of players all copying your build dude.



Prime Assassin -> RE: how to solve everyone moaning about op classes without having to nerf. (3/4/2012 13:30:50)

there is lots of players starting to use the caster beta tech mage. and those who cant use the beta wepeon version use the newest and strongest wepeons to try and match it;s power. in the next 4 days 2 vs 2 will be full of tech mages.



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