The Main Source(s) of Broken Gameplay (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> The Main Source(s) of Broken Gameplay (3/12/2012 12:37:10)

My topic begins after the following quotes...

May 12th... 2009:

quote:

We've added an exciting new sidearm feature that we hope will resolve some recurring problems and add another dimension to our battle engine! Players can now equip an unblockable "Sidearm" as their secondary weapon. After the update, guns may no longer be equipped as the primary weapon in battle. The addition of a secondary weapon will allow players to inflict both damage types (Physical and Energy) if they wish. To equip a sidearm, purchase one from a merchant, go to your inventory screen and equip it to the "Sidearm" field. To use a sidearm in battle, you'll notice a new "Fire Sidearm" button in the battle interface. Click the button to attack an enemy using the gun. The stats menu has been updated to reflect your sidearm damage range


April 22nd... 2009:

quote:

Sidearm buffs (Guns now can affect your character similar to armor)


^

They gave Sidearms STATS. More power to Strength.

April 28th... 2009:

quote:

Some debuffs are now applied as part of a strike (Smoke Screen, Malfunction, Intimidate)


April 16th... 2010:

quote:

NEW STAT! Focus improves damage for all attacks through an even distribution of stat points.


^

New stat? Say it ain't so, Focus is more like a side-effect... of requirements.

June 12th... 2010:

quote:

We experimented with grenades in the battle engine and found that they were either not useful or seriously broke the game's balance, however, we were able to use recycle some of that code and combine it with our skill perk concept to produce:

ROBOTS!!!
These feisty androids can wreak havoc on your opponents by delivering a standard attack or a special skill. These bots are designed to serve players at all levels, as their damage scales with Technology and Focus as a player levels up. The special skills will be unlike anything currently available, making for some truly interesting builds and dynamically changing dueling tactics. The first prototype robot will be available from the Overlord Guard at the Overlord Facility, Mirv in the Barrens, Talia in Fortune City, Ulysses in the Wasteland, and Xraal in the Bio Dome. We are very excited about this feature as it introduces nearly limitless possibilities for new skill and battle strategy! Plus, in the future you may be able to place one of these guys to guard your house!


August 4th... 2010:

quote:

Item enhancements (customizable weapons)


September 16th... 2010:

Become a Landlord!

quote:

As more and more Exiles flood to Delta V, property is in ever-increasing demand. In preparation for exciting new housing items, we are adding 2 awesome new homes! To reward enterprising real estate tycoons, we are offering the Landlord achievement to anyone who purchases 4 or more homes!


^

[:@]RAGE[:@]

quote:

Balance Improvements

It has been clear for some time now that EpicDuel was in dire need of a balance update. Thus after scouring the forums and discussing amongst our devvie selve, we have introduced a new balance stat, Agility, which is in many ways the "yin" to Focus' "yang". Agility will specifically address high health builds, penalizing players who invest too heavily in health points. Low agility will result in overall decreased defenses. The reasoning behind this is that as you add health points, your character becomes "clunkier" and less able to defend against attacks. The numbers we are using to determine Agility are mostly experimental, so if you feel they can be readjusted to accomplish the same ends, please let us know. The ongoing quest to find perfect balance in EpicDuel's three classes never over!


^

Uh... the fact that you chose to make stat abuse less productive is a good step, although it should have been handled by decreasing the overall effectiveness of health, ergo not having to add more features to handicap one of the core structures. For example you could have made health decay after 100 points.

October 8th... 2010:

quote:

Balance Improvements

Due to popular player demand, we've modified the Agility table to take effect at a higher Health tiers than before.


^

Dear God, it is essentially overkill to having 180 health, why? If so many stats have been placed into health, is there no compromise? This is unnecessary.

April 8th... 2011:

quote:

Level Ranges and Encumberance:

To keep the latest and greatest weapons from being out of the range of hardworking players, we have introduced a level range requirement to weapons. You will now be able to equip a weapon as early as 4 levels prior to the highest requirement, as long as you meet the stat requirements. However, there is a catch, we have introduced a restriction to this feature called Encumberance. You may equip a weapon before you meet the highest level requirement, BUT you will take one point of damage reduction for each level you are below the highest requirement. This new feature applies to Primary, Sidearm, and Auxiliary weapon types. Armors, Robots, Bikes, and Boosters are unaffected.


^

Stat abuse for low levels. The trade in? Lower weapon damage. The stats remain.

April 15th... 2011:

quote:

Diminishing returns on Strength, Dexterity, Technology, and Support begins 5 points later (after 55 stat points)


^

Well this promotes Focus above all else, notice that 55 is 10 points away from 45, the fifth level of Focus? Why should I have 90 Strength and Dexterity when I could have nearly the same effectiveness in stats at only 45 points in all stats? Or 55.

April 22nd... 2011:

quote:

More Enhancements! More Power!
Got some dusty old bazookas and guns you've been keeping for a special occasion? Want to take the latest and greatest weapons to the next level? Power them up with sidearm and bazooka enhancements! Plus, to be fair to our non-varium players, credit enhancement prices have been slashed 30-40%!


^

No comment.

________________________________________________________________

Anyhow, back on topic. You see, I see, complaints time and time again about the overpowered and the reverse. We say it is classes or skills, and some people are very close to the reality, but I will say that certain certain features + stats are the root of balance disruption. Sidearms, which have scaled with Strength and give it extra power by adding a second element, making Strength that much more exclusive. Enhancements have been added to make Strength that much more obtainable. I won't just say that Strength has been issue before, no, Support has also been an issue before. But those are both stats, and enhancements influence this directly.

Another issue we have is requirements. What do I mean by requirements being an issue? For one point, gear, besides robots will give you stat points. Requirements prompt you to have another type of stat, to receive the preferred stat. Not a big issue, right? Wrong. Requirements scale with player level, the higher your level, the higher your requirements will be. I had owned the Serpent Blaster before, at level 34, it requires 41 Strength. 41. That is 4 points away from being a requirement for the fifth level of Focus. Now imagine the requirements at level 40. That's right. Requirements are one of, if not the biggest bandaid to both: get players to use Focus, and try to stop stat abuse.

But what am I ranting about, stat abuse, requirements, Focus, agility, encumbrance, skills and stats, the assorted? Well, my largest issue in EpicDuel, happened a very long time ago, when this game was made... the way stat progressions was designed. At first, it was impossible to be a Strength abuser besides the Bounty Hunters who possessed both Smokescreen and Bloodlust. But anyhow, at the time it was the 3 hit Supercharge. Now today we are dealing with a mix of Strength abusers (not users), belonging to the classes who can use it... all classes besides Tech Mage and Mercenary. Both classes do not have the proper skills to be able to either: rely on a skill (reuse it), or have it synergize (survive with the skill).

Not to forget skills themselves. Stats and skills are one of a kind, but also relate very well. Skills can either have a requirement or improve with a skill. Not so bad right? Wrong. Skills that have requirements and are necessary to survival only enforce Focus. Skills that improve with stats only enforce stat abuse. Remove both of these features and scale them to character level and you will have this fixed.

The core of this game needs dire attention.

Talk to me if you need an explanation or advice.




Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 13:06:00)

To simplify this.


Players bought weapons due to the amount of stats they had. The more, the better... Now add enhancements, this produced varied builds that became powerful and bloated.

The 5 focus attempt was to reward players who played balanced. That became origin of Gamma Bot, Park and Attack play (Sit as a tank, and Gamma Bot attacks till rage)

Agility, was to hone down both Mages and BH to aid mercs to compete. Both BH and Mages have the ability to expand their build with high health due to Blood Lust and Reroute, and mercs were not able because expanding builds for mercs would make their defenses weaker.

When Agility went in force, the requirements were so strong, the age of Strength/Tank/Support Mercs began. Now both BH and Mages had to compact their builds to compete, and that was prime season to exploit by the natural abilities of Hybrid (+12) at the time.

There are other elements, I could comment on, but power sells, and is the most attractive part of this game for most people.





Stabilis -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 13:09:10)

quote:

There are other elements, I could comment on, but power sells, and is the most attractive part of this game for most people.


Statistics please? Games are played to be enjoyed, the enjoyment sells the most. Power is a trigger of enjoyment, but it is not the only factor.




Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 13:16:24)

I don't need statistics. You know very well by your own quotes you taken from previous design notes. Power is the incentive and the driving force in this game, this is a fact.

I seen your items equip now on your char page, buy level 15 gear and compete. Loosing is not fun, and you will see that dreaded red sign that says, "Power Up" quite a bit.

Tell me what does it mean?








Remorse -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 13:19:47)

This is obvious to me, ( Infact I try to prove this from time to time)

The balance probelms only mainly started occuring due to enahments.

Before then the extra power was OK in terms of variety and Oped builds.

But now its way over the top....

The sad thing is these features were made to promote variety and creativity but in the long run it destroys it.

@ Jzaanu,

The powerup feature to me with current balance says to me, people have tacken on board the powers oped capabilities with powerbuilds can do.
And are rewarded with effortless wins but at the same time unfair loses.


I would prefer no over the top power provdidng noone else had it to abuse.




Stabilis -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 13:27:31)

quote:

I don't need statistics. You know very well by your own quotes you taken from previous design notes. Power is the incentive and the driving force in this game, this is a fact.

I seen your items equip now on your char page, buy level 15 gear and compete. Loosing is not fun, and you will see that dreaded red sign that says, "Power Up" quite a bit.

Tell me what does it mean?


- If you know that "power" is the one true force in EpicDuel, do you really know what each player is thinking, are you God?

- Power Having fun is the incentive and the driving force in this game, this is a fact. What does power do in a game? It changes the way you play. Features based on power are used to sell, because it acts on a person's sense of pride/jealousy ("If I buy this new feature, the Assault Bot, I will not lose to people who Malf or Smoke me, making me OP, I will be a legend!!!").

- You have seen my level 25 Beta gear, now you may further see how broken this game is, I get to administer 95 health, 88 energy, 45+ Defense AND Resistance, cast Multi-shot twice, and all because of the vast amount of stat points, which causes my overpowered defense systems to protect me AND improve a means of offense.

- The "power up now" link? I haven't seen that since yesterday, powering up means buying EpicDuel's products to fix your loss rate, because some players have a weak sense of pride/jealousy and will do anything to be able to call one another a noob.




ND Mallet -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 14:48:02)

One big flaw in your argument I want to point out. You say that the staff is trying to force Focus builds by requirements. You say to get rid of requirements and then have all skills scale only by level. Where's my incentive to do anything differently than Focus? If I have 5 focus or whether I have 0, my skills will still be doing the same amount of damage regardless of stats. So why bother with any builds at all aside from Focus where I will have a bot to use unlike the people who don't use Focus? The answer is simple, I won't bother. There would be no benefit to me at all not to use a Focus build since I would be losing out on bot damage.




Stabilis -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 15:03:28)

quote:

One big flaw in your argument I want to point out. You say that the staff is trying to force Focus builds by requirements. You say to get rid of requirements and then have all skills scale only by level. Where's my incentive to do anything differently than Focus? If I have 5 focus or whether I have 0, my skills will still be doing the same amount of damage regardless of stats. So why bother with any builds at all aside from Focus where I will have a bot to use unlike the people who don't use Focus? The answer is simple, I won't bother. There would be no benefit to me at all not to use a Focus build since I would be losing out on bot damage.


Are you saying that the one flaw is: regardless of Focus, regardless of stats, since skills have no relation to stats, that Focus is as effective as any other build using a stat towards improving a skill?

I am slightly confused, if you are saying that Focus becomes the most optimal choice, I would not necessarily say that this is true, as any other build that is not Focus benefits fully from any skill. IF you are saying that in separating stats from skills, that Focus simply becomes a jack-of-all trades, I would agree.

I still find the topic which you addressing somewhat vague as removing requirements allows diversity, stopping power struggles between players of the same build, favouring balance.

If it helps I would suggest this as an edit to Focus: I have no idea why it was a good idea to make Focus an amalgamation of 4 existing stats, so to allow a more direct way of changing a robot, robots only improve with Technology, or Focus becomes it's own stat.




ND Mallet -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 15:16:43)

I'm saying that by removing the only reason to not use Focus(stats improving skills because some people would rather put those points into the stat improving their skills) you're encouraging Focus. Making Focus it's own stat won't do anything at all because everyone will still have it since it will only be 5 points invested in. Making it only tech reduces Focus builds but once again supports stat spamming. Nothing can be done to stop stat spamming. It will always be there because big numbers will always excite some players.




Stabilis -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 15:46:34)

quote:

I'm saying that by removing the only reason to not use Focus(stats improving skills because some people would rather put those points into the stat improving their skills) you're encouraging Focus.


OK, so in removing the relation between stats and skills, there is no stigma there for players to want to raise a stat like Strength, Dexterity, Technology, or Support? But instead, just going with Focus and having all skills being 100% available as anyone else does is more "encouraging"?

Well, one key point is relying on just one stat and losing is either: an error of the user's ways, or the stat is underperforming; relying on just one stat and winning is either: a success of the user's ways, or the stat is overperforming.

With Focus we have 4 stats to monitor, and because of this, there is no true way to tell if the linkage between S-D-T-S is a result of either Str, Dex, Tec, or Sup performing properly. Focus is, and always will be, if it is not changed, a Doppler being affected and controlled by the kickback of something else.

Just by that characteristic, you cannot tell if Focus is OP/UP, so a change is necessary.

quote:

Making Focus it's own stat won't do anything at all because everyone will still have it since it will only be 5 points invested in.


I have quickly contemplated between Focus being it's own or belonging to Technology, and I have come to a conclusion:

Focus makes better use of itself being it's own stat. Why? Not only is the balance in stats easier to address, but with the more stats there are controlling the framework of EpicDuel, abusing stats also becomes less of an issue. All players need even a small amount of each stat to be considered a basic building block, a foundation to judge the simplest calculations such as blocking.

So please bear in thought, that Focus as it's own stat will only mean that by improving Focus, you improve just one weapon, robots. I also support changing the equipment inventory, Sidearm, a weapon of Strength... also has Primaries. Strength has 2 weapons, because Strength users of the past needed options to handle different situations, Defense or Resistance. Well, it is the future now, so shouldn't Support get a second weapon? It has a cooldown of 4 turns. Technology, if not split from Resistance should stay as a defensive stat, and Dexterity, if not split from Defense, should stay a Defensive stat.

In making stats unique to what they were promised: Str/Sup for offense, Dex/Tec for defense, balance can be improved by candling each stat as their own.




nico0las -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 19:28:53)

Soon we're going to be spending full varium packages on one item and enhancements. This has to stop NOW.




Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 19:42:19)

Depressed Void, you know my perspective very well. You choose to argue me on the incentives of power (advantages) in this game. Currently your speaking from 2 opposing perspectives, and trying to make a single point. I stated my view very clearly, and we all know exactly why this game succeeds and struggles. And that is to be the best one can be. This includes enhancements, power builds, class change, and other elements. What is your Power of choice (Advantage)?



Remorse, I truly dislike that sign at the end of the match. In regard to Power-Up, there are no credit only power signs, it is solely to sell varium and nothing else. I feel if the sign was honest like, Support ED with Varium, or even simpler, Buy Varium for Advantage. I find that sign a bit insulting. Loosing is not fun, and especially if one is pummeled by a full varium player, and you only carry just enough to get by.




Stabilis -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/12/2012 21:49:31)

quote:

Currently your speaking from 2 opposing perspectives, and trying to make a single point.


That is known as being inclusively contentious my good friend, elementary.

http://i39.tinypic.com/k9jguu.png

But yes, I have seen your first post, and thank you for summarizing the details. The one touchy subject for was to assume that power meant everything if the "majority" said so. If my correction seemed at all out of place or any bit assertive, sorry.

quote:

And that is to be the best one can be.


If it means joining all other players in unity then I agree.

quote:

What is your Power of choice (Advantage)?


I quite prefer boosters which require credits, used to provide recoveries from an unintended turn of events. Sometimes they just aren't worth enough, though.




Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: One of my Dilemmas (3/13/2012 21:03:52)

No Worries Depressed Void. I just wasn't sure why you were debating on a topic we both agreed upon. :)

I only just stated the reasonings why many of the balance adjustments were made.


quote:

What is your Power of choice (Advantage)?
Thank You for answering directly. My intent was of rhetorical nature. As players, we will apply any method available to use as an advantage for success. Basically it was all I listed, but I should have also included boosters too.

I used the term Power in a general manner. When we all use our own Power (as we best feel to gain the advantage) within the game, common successful classes/builds become demographically dominant. When this happens, restrictions are applied as a balance to level the game, but it is more of a cycle to the next class with Power potential. And this has continued since the introduction of both enhancements and class change.

Thank you for addressing the issues in this post, and deeply researched specific matters.






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