RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/22/2012 16:31:43)

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quote:

Yes cooldown and Varium users will win with yeti bot.


That is a great point, nom nom nom removes both the Sidearm and Auxiliary weapons. This may certainly trigger a Strike, thus the chance to be rendered inactive. I will have to ponder this for awhile, I just need to investigate the power of the yeti for this circumstance. I would not expect the nom nom nom to be too powerful, though, as it is very conditional for it being one-use, blockable, and low damage. Now you have me enthused, thanks.

By the way I have added a condition to handle a loss of moves: "If there are no moves available, the player misses their turn, however incoming damage is reduced by 50%".

quote:

I have another query.
The builds I have used lately make my guns a bit weak so I rarely use my gun a lot. Surely this would make me got he 'high focus' way?


That depends, if you are not using guns (which is Strength), but instead a weapon such as Auxiliaries, or skills... Focus is an option, but at the same time not necessary.Everyone will have the identical cooldown, Strength users cannot exploit Strike for damage, Dexterity users although efficient with melee cannot exploit reliable damage, Technology users are reasonably unaffected, Support users are reasonably unaffected as well, and Focus users will have the most variety but also the most cooldowns. If you value robot abilities over robot strikes you will still devalue robot damage.

quote:

This is impossible. xD Imagine low level players without sidearms and auxiliary weapons. Staring each other in the eye while waiting for strike to cooldown. Important time will be wasted.


There is no deed to be deemed impossible! I am getting more program-annexed in my studies and I would definitely not say that changing a "cooldown" and handling a newer event (no player options) is ever disastrous. They will not be staring each other in the eye. If no moves are available then why should there be a timer? Instead of missing a turn I have substituted defending which is: "If there are no moves available, the player misses their turn, however incoming damage is reduced by 50%".

quote:

No. This would cause low level players to quit and it would kill str builds for good. It would also affect everyone as people would have to be wasting valuable time waiting for strike to cooldown if they just used their aux,gun, and bot.


Why should low level players be quitting? If both opponents lose their turn to defend (because they may only have a Primary weapon equipped), that is an equal trade. Why would it kill Strength for good? The Field Medic nerf and Deflection change did not kill Support for good. Strength simply becomes less frequent in damage output, as should all weapons for cooldown. Maybe I should suggest that Auxiliaries, Sidearms, and Robots have no cooldown just as Primaries hmmmm. Why would players be wasting their time? If there are no battle options, the timer does not initialize.

quote:

Nobody responded to my post about strike requiring energy if used consecutively.


Sorry if I forgot to include your post zman, I saw a rough template in Blood's and Remorse's post but not your own so I may have attentively passed your own over.




zion -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/22/2012 19:51:46)

Due to game flow issues (especially at low levels) you need to have one move that can attack each turn without an energy cost. If you give strike a cool-down, you would just need to make a new move with no cool-down. IMO skills should be buffed before nerfing str.
--noiz




Stabilis -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/22/2012 20:25:20)

quote:

Due to game flow issues (especially at low levels) you need to have one move that can attack each turn without an energy cost.


This is a necessity? I agree that there should be a move available at all turns, but I also agree that all weapons should require a cooldown regardless of what the duration is. Exploitation of a weapon comes from being able to administer it's abilities without costs.

quote:

If you give strike a cool-down, you would just need to make a new move with no cool-down.


I would settle for giving Strength, Dexterity, Technology, Support, and Focus each at least one weapon or two to profess in. This is what I think of for opening options.




RabbleFroth -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/23/2012 16:01:49)

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning for suggesting a change like this. If it's just to make a hit to Strength builds, it's way too heavy-handed a change.

As people have pointed out, there needs to be at least one guaranteed action you can make on every turn. In addition, the damage on primary weapons and the value of Strength as a stat is reliant on the fact that you can potentially attack every turn.




Stabilis -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/23/2012 16:19:48)

quote:

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning for suggesting a change like this. If it's just to make a hit to Strength builds, it's way too heavy-handed a change.

As people have pointed out, there needs to be at least one guaranteed action you can make on every turn. In addition, the damage on primary weapons and the value of Strength as a stat is reliant on the fact that you can potentially attack every turn.


Oh boy I get to argue with Rabblefroth! [sm=frogzard.gif][sm=frogzard.gif][sm=frogzard.gif] And thanks for bumping my thread.

So firstly, just why does there need to be at least one action each turn? If it was necessary, then Support of all skills should be able to attack with the Auxiliary each turn. Strength possesses 2 weapons, Support for 1. Auxiliaries have a 5 point damage boost over Primaries and Sidearms, which has been unscaled since who knows when. Simply, Primaries can be exploited for massive damage of all weapons and of all skills. Because there is no cooldown, a 30 damage Primary can output 30 points each turn. A 35 damage Auxiliary, however, can output 35 damage every 4 turns. Since I do not have to use calculus, that is great. To get the average damage over time we take the weapons' damage and divide by cooldown. That is the average damage the weapon actually has upon every turn. So a 30 damage Primary can expel 30 damage points per turn... while the 35 damage Auxiliary can expel 8.75 damage points per turn. Big difference! Due to cooldowns, if ignoring the rest of the combat system, Primaries clearly have a massive advantage over all weapons (indirectly, Strength possesses the largest advantage over all stats).

It is very easy for a Strength player to damage large numbers each turn, but less so for, for example, a Support player by approximately 3 quarters the potential when considering weapons.

What I have suggested now is after Primaries have been given a cooldown, any cooldown at all, there is the room to insert an excpetion handler for the enormous hole known as parsing a turn event when there are no actions available (... besides stun).

If a player has been unwise or unlucky enough to result in having no actions available, spend the null turn defending. Defending logic: no moves are played, however incoming damage will be reduced by 50% (plus rounding up). We can play EpicDuel with such events. For balance, do not let exploitation of infinite cooldown menace the game!




Pyure -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/23/2012 17:08:55)

I haven't been on ED recently, but from Depressed Voids chart it says that gun + aux have a longer cooldown... When did they make guns 3 turns and aux 4? O_o




8x -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/23/2012 17:11:02)

^They didn't.




Stabilis -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/23/2012 17:20:38)

Longer cooldown, meaning Sidearms and Auxiliaries (and Robots included) all cooldown, needing more more time collectively to output damage. Sorry for the confusion if I made it sound like cooldown is a recent major update.




Cyberbeast10 -> RE: What if Strike Cooled Down? (3/23/2012 22:09:04)

I'm quite grateful you made have a chart on how effective a primary is over sidearms and aux, but due note a primary's damage can be completely negated via block. This suggestion just kills Strength builds; overkills them actually.

The Primary's original function was to allow players to be able to dish out damage even after all their other options are used up, and this suggestion can lead to builds with a major focus on their skills (With established; effective skill rotations) to dominate. If "Defending" were put in; it wouldn't really do much, it would give other players another turn to attack and in 2vs2 that would be horrible!




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