Stop Nerfing (Full Version)

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Shyteria -> Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 18:56:35)

If no one has seen that we aren't handling the problems of this game in the right way, then everyone might as well quit.
how in the world does nerfing solve the problem of OP classes, that does nothing but make everyone ragequit and change
class to the next class that now has the upperhand, then nerf that class too? Each class should be different in every way, and have
their own combos and whatever. Each class should have the upperhand on whatever class by strength or dexterity or whatever.
Why narrow all the classes to 5-focus? Whats the point of class change when in the end everything will be 5-focus with all this dam nerfing.
The only fun class now is tech mage because it can now be what it was meant to be, a high tech/dex caster build. Tech Mage is the most balanced out
class there is at the moment. If this class gets nerfed then you can really say this game has no hope. My point is nerfing solves nothing, it never has.
So why ask for it? Stop nerfing, fix these classes back to what they are suppose to originally be, again each class should have its own strength, and each class should have its own weakness because without atleast one weakness how can you beat it? Who agrees and who thinks I'm completely
wrong? Stop the nerfing, fix the classes and actually start working on the game itself such as modes/features etc.



Battle Elf -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 19:00:46)

I disagree with you, if you OP one class then you have to then OP them all instead of nerfing just one.

In the future you should put this in the Balance Discussion



Shyteria -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 19:03:17)

^OP them all, no offence but how can every class be OP?



Ranloth -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 19:06:32)

BHs still have all types of builds possible that work effectively, as well as TMs as you mentioned and we'll probably see Mercs coming back with the buff but they can still compete with few different builds to an extent. And same with TLMs - I can see many using now Poison, SS and Multi builds which is much better than Smoke+Frenzy+Str-abuse every fight.
Only BMs are limited to Str to compete *Support/Tank works as well as I seen a few and was quite a fun fight* and CHs are currently OP'ed and their builds are usually Str or Dex (or Focus 5).

By the way, if we buff all classes then we need buff to all skills in the game as well as stats - HP will be more useless; everyone deal more damage and HP isn't enough, EP will need to be raised; skills would cost more as well if buffed to make up for damage but some classes limited even further, and some stats buffed up; defence will be more useless as it won't be able to reflect enough damage *ties in with HP*.
Don't look at one tree and base things on it, look at the whole forest.



Shyteria -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 19:10:55)

^I don't want to *buff* the classes, I'm saying all classes should have an advantage over one another by strength or dex or whatever stat. I don't want nerfs because that leads to class jumping and getting that new OP class nerfed untill eventually every class is dull and plain and every fight is the same.



Nexus... -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 20:22:54)

The developers have handled balance in the worst way possible over the last couple of years, and because of their poor choices, balance has declined at an ever growing rate since Beta. We are currently stuck in a loop where one class will rise to power because of a buff, and others will be all but forgotten because of how badly they have been nerfed. It is very frustrating. I can understand how someone who has only been here for a year or so could mistake recent changes for "progress", but if you are an experienced player, you should have seen started to see the pattern long ago. The devs needed to make the hard choice of revamping balance entirely, but instead took the easy route of putting bandaids on everything. Unfortunately, those bandaids will not fix the route of the problem, which is at the core of the balance engine itself...

Xendran has a lot to say to this point. He had a wonderful schematic for balance a while back, but I think the developers shrugged it off because of the amount of work it required on their end.


Prophet



BlueKatz -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 22:25:03)

You can't make buff every classes, they will be all OP - another word, broken. There are just way too many cap, decay and all of them scale differently
First, every classes will have abusive builds which will limit creative builds, there won't be any counter in game because everything is so OP counter won't matter. Second first turn and random effect like Crit Block will be extremely annoying. Third because there won't be any counter build classes passive will counter other classes themselves, so the game will go in cycle



Nexus... -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 22:52:43)

I don't think Shy is saying "OMG BUFF EVERYTHING!", it's more along the lines of "the system is broken, and we need a new one in order to fix it."

Also, we are going in circles already, if you haven't noticed CH just received a major buff, and Mercenary is set to get one in the next release, so...



Prophet



ND Mallet -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 22:58:38)

@nexus If you haven't noticed, CH's recently got a huge nerf to Static Charge so you actually have to have strength to get a good amount of enery back now. It's perfectly fine to buff one class if it's the only one underperforming, but when only 1 class is overperforming, it's much easier to nerf that one class instead of buffing the other 5. Most people would agree they like a little strategy in the game rather than having games end in 4 turns each battle so constant buffing will be a bad thing. As the power of players go up, everything else must go up or it will lead to a point where everything is over in seconds. So instead of buffing absolutely everything in the game, one should instead nerf the OPd so we don't end up with all the battles where first turn wins.



Silent blood -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/21/2012 23:05:47)

besides nerfing and buffing is how the game makes its money
once one class is OP they nerf it buff anouther one and people use
varium to change class



Remorse -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/22/2012 0:56:42)

The problem is most builds/ classes are too powerful, so much so it destroys the staretgical side of the game.



Buffing is actuly a TERRIABLE idea, Buffing is the main reason why Balance is teriable.


Yes nerfing is anoying but If it is done properly and painfully once but hopefully fix most balance problems then it is 100% necesary.


Infact I have an oppisite stance of yours,

If the Devs DONT start nerfing the oped builds and classes I will quit.

How can you say pathetic build combos such as the STR blood mage shouldnt be nerfed....

How do you expect the game to be fixed if they are limited to swtiching the order of the most powerful classes but never fixing the power problem.

The more they buff the more LUCK destroys this game aswell and the more Startegy is thrown out the door.

the diffrence between nerfing to fix balance compared to buffing is you can actuly FIX balance with nerfing where as Buffing to fix its problems only shifts the order of the most powerful and leaves the current state of poor balance.

Belive it or not, Nerifng HAS an end and I despretally hope the devs reach that point and that is the point pre enahments.
When Glass cannons where more glassgunns and tanks were more cars..... xD

Where straetgy ment something and luck didnt rule.

Where battles were actuly FUN not PATHETIC.


SO If the devs decide to stop nerfing properly I QUIT!




drekon -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/22/2012 2:13:30)

quote:

Tech Mage is the most balanced out class there is at the moment. If this class gets nerfed then you can really say this game has no hope.

You say that because you're most likely a Tech Mage. In actuality, Tech Mages are the most overpowered class at the moment. They frequently dominate the Solo Leaderboard with an average percentile ranging from 94% to 99%. This constitutes being "overpowered". With most of my Blood Mage builds my win/loss ratio against Tech Mages (tech spam/superchargers) is roughly 1:10. Meaning, for every win I struggle to get, I lose 10 battles. The only Blood Mage build that can be of any challenge to these commonly used Tech Mage builds is my tank build. Even with this build, the win/loss ratio is still around 1:5.

While I agree that nerfing doesn't solve everything, there are times when it is imperative that a class be nerfed. Buffing underpowered classes is great and I'm in favor of that. However, players of the overpowered classes will always complain about buffs when they realize they're no longer winning 95% of battles.



voidance -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/22/2012 4:06:09)

i haven't played this game in months and decided to get on today to see what improvements they have made. For starters I found out that as a level 33 you never go first against a 34 which i find odd since they were suppose to have fixed that b4 i even quit, that Support doesn't do sht for you when it comes to going first are potentially avoiding a critical, and shockingly I'm seeing 100s of peoples using the same builds which were the same overpowered builds i seen half a year ago b4 i quit. so kuddos to nightwraith for doing absolutely nothing to fix these problems. what I'm trying to get at is they didn't nerf sht, I seen the same overpowered bs I seen b4 I quit with a few skill adjustments that didn't much of anything.



Lycus -> RE: Stop Nerfing (3/22/2012 4:21:15)

Firstly, as stated above, this belongs in the Balance Discussion. So if you really want to discuss this then please post it there. My view is that the balance Tracker has shown clearly that the nerfing has worked, and now the majority of classes are actually getting about the same win percentage, which shows they are more balanced. I'm guessing you're complaining about nerfing, because it effected your build, if you were a TlM and that's what you're talking about, the class is far from dead, and in fact I've seen much more variety in TlM builds that work well since the 'nerf'. You got a free retrain, be creative, other people have made it work, so I'm sure you can too! If we made every class more powerful, it would disrupt balance even more, and it would take a much longer amount of time, nerfing at times can be much better for balance, and much better since it takes less time since we're only changing one class.
Everyone has their own opinions on these things, and the balance discussion is the place to express them. ~Locked



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