In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 11:31:32)

Have you noticed ever that skills of the same classifications such as status-condition skills do not perform in a similar manner? Blood Shield, Energy Shield, and Defense Matrix cover both halves of protection, but Blood Shield costs health. Smokescreen and Reflex Boost change Dexterity, however Smokescreen has an aggressive Strike attached and 1 less turn in duration. Or the previous Defense ignoring Artillery compared to Multi-shot. Extra damage plus Support cannot be nerfed.

May I demand relevance to fortify why things of the similar behaviour must act so differently? In my opinion anything with Strike appended to is sure of the Strength stat. For nerf skills such as Smokescreen, they would work just fine without Strike and an extra turn of duration, exactly like stat buffs. Strike is not involved so rage is not counted.

Why do you think skills, even of the same group were made differently, sometimes in such a grand way that balance is injured?



Smackie El Frog -> RE: In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 11:36:33)

Are you just trying to be the incarnation of the Nerf Lord? A little difference here and there between classes's skill trees are welcome in my mind.



Stabilis -> RE: In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 11:48:26)

As the Nerf Lord I am welcome to difference and indifference equally, but if this skill has a disadvantage or advantage over other skills of the same grouping when it could have been on a completely different class of it's own I see an issue.

Like I have said, is it truly equal that Artillery had a Defense ignorance trait, could not be affected by nerfing or buffing skills while Plasma Rain did not follow this pattern?



RabbleFroth -> RE: In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 12:22:48)

We don't want to completely homogenize the game (make every skill act exactly the same), because that leads to boredom and skills becoming stale. Each class should have little bits of "flavor" to their skills that make them play differently.

Also, buffs last longer than debuffs because in general, the counter to something should be slightly better than what it counters given the same effort. This is the same reason that defense/resistance scale faster with the same number of stat points than damage from Strength.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 12:22:48)

without strike debuffs will be waste of turn and energy just like Field Commander. I think skills should be more useable unlike keep nerfing them. Balance team nerfed all strategy in classes, now look the situation, everybody use 1 way spam builds. Str BM- Caster TM - SC TM all of them are the most efficient builds in game and no strategy required.

Strong builds should be like old Str TLM, the old str TLM could use 9/12 skills very effectively in 1 build with infinite combination. I belive every class should be like the old Str TLM to increase strategy.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 12:27:30)

lets not forget that Rabblefroth is clearly a great developer but he is still relatively new to the game and any changes he makes need
to be well researched. I also agree that making all the classes very similar would make the game pretty dull.

I do think Smoke and Malfunction should be cast rather than applied though, with no damage aspect.



Stabilis -> RE: In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 13:32:26)

I would argue that a player could retain the abilities of their nerf skill, for example a nerf skill to work in a similar fashion as buff skills work right now. Including Strike and reducing the duration of Malfunction for example aids Strength players more than other players as the effect lasts but 2 turns and the third turn is compensated by a Strike to activate the skill. Without Strength, casting Malfunction would likely hit a 3, and allow 2 turns of Strength-unrelated options... an attack skill not using Strength, and a Robot or Auxiliary. True, Malfunction improves with Support, but Support does not compensate the fact that the Strike damage plus the 2 turn duration opposed to Technician's 3 will not increase.

If I could suggest something, I would say Malfunction, Intimidate, and Smokescreen would be better off for ALL players if Strike were to be removed and the duration increased.

As mentioned, Strike may add to rage, but Strike is not always a suitable option for any player because it resides in Strength.

Here is a what if situation: what if Intimidate for example is blocked? Not only is there no damage involved, but compared to a skill such as Field Commander, 1 less turn duration and a higher energy cost. Balanced?



Sipping Cider -> RE: In a Pickle with Skill Groupings (4/4/2012 18:33:11)

@Depressed Void

I like the goal basics of your thinking, as it would be easier to ballance things if stats were related the same way. However, I like Rabblefroths explanation. I know that when I started this game I loved the idea that three starting skills for each class were not even related, except for field medic. In most strategy RPG games I notice that classes have the same skills often with just different names or animations, thus making your class choice just an aesthetics choice.

As for debuffs having a strike attached, I think it is the perfect way to ballance these skills. None of these skill improve with strength, so if you want to do damage on the strike and have the debuff be powerfull, you need to invest in two stats rather than one, adding more strategy to stat placement rather than piling into one stat.



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