RE: Balance Tracker (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 13:57:10)

@Trans,

Projects for video games are similar to business projects. The project manager (Titan) (maybe Nightwraith planned BT as well), they create an outline for things like polymorphism (ancestry) and develop their way down this "map" that shows each step of BT. Behaviours and states are noted at every step.

We WOULD have had these functions implemented IF they were included. As you can tell, BT is relatively new so it's flexibility is limited unlike that of equipment on characters.



Ranloth -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 14:06:24)

I'm confused if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing now. e.e
That's what I technically meant. If they had more members or more knowledge how to play around with BT, they could add more but as flexibility is limited it's quite hard now. Definitely not impossible but perhaps there are different projects going on than this? Who knows.



Stabilis -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 14:31:24)

If I had to take a guess then any results BT takes are transmitted to a database, like a "spreadsheet" but more specifically an analytical software that updates it's own fields when linked to BT. To get more from BT, it takes some time, but essentially the database would require more fields to write to and simply have someone implement lines of code that write specifics (like # of class changes) into the database that can therefor be manipulated into rates and graphs for Rabblefroth for example to analyze and make judgements from.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 15:54:30)

@Depressed: it is people like you that made me create this topic in the first place. I knew their were players here that could think far beyond a simple win %.



RabbleFroth -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 18:23:55)

We could certainly spend a ton of time and include all sorts of information about every battle into a database. But then what? The more data you have, the more difficult it becomes to read and understand, and the more noise you have to deal with when looking for problems. All this would really do is let us verify if, for example, a specific build or class is overpowered. We could look at all of our data and then say "Yes, these numbers agree that the class is overpowered."

Alternatively, we could just log in and play the game, and see clearly for ourselves whether or not it is a problem.

The other issue with gathering a ton of information is making yourself blind to possibilities you didn't foresee. Maybe the problem lies with something we don't record. If that's the case we might just dismiss it because "our data doesn't show it."

That said, I think tracking certain things can be very useful, and I would definitely like to get more data to help us make decisions. We just have to be smart with what we record.



ConQrR -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 18:30:41)

RableFroth, please give some attention on Juggernaut mode as you were promissed before. All balance issues turning on classes and 1vs1. Dont forget us please.



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 18:31:47)

@Rabblefroth: these issues are why I asked for more details on how the balance tracker functioned, and what information it presented to the ED Team.
but you sound even less confident of it's accuracy than I do :) I completely agree that playing the game is important. I'd say it should be mandatory.
and not fighting each other on a private server, actually getting stuck in to 1v1, 2v2 and/or Juggernaut. the best players are those who play the game.

the regular grinders should be seeing staff in battles each week at least, how can Cinderella say it is our observer bias when we observe more than them?

the new recruits should go a long way towards improving their "observatory" data, to combine with the balance tracker and player input. They are regular
players who we all see in the grind, working hard, trying new builds and contributing all their knowledge and experience to the community. long time coming.



Stabilis -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 18:32:26)

@Rabble,

Simply, if you could manipulate Battle Tracker to record just the use of stat placement, skill placement, and skills used, and compare those with the time elapsed in battle (wins:time), and success rate (wins:losses), regularly update the EpicDuel forum with the figures, balance discussion with the balance team would be very successful! :D



PivotalDisorder -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 19:14:01)

@Depressed: you do not ask for much :) :) :)



midnight santa -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:23:53)

Rabelforth, thx for reply to me. I read u and ur rite. Jus focus in 1v1 balance.
If 1v1 is balance, 2v2 is balance.
Jugernut is no need to balance, it is supose to be rly hard becus it is 2v1.
Only noobs want jugernut to be easy like in las year, jugernuts always win 99% wth [:@]



Wraith -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:32:45)

@midnight santa: Je ne t'ai jamais comprehendre.

Please elaborate (preferably not, though, *eyesore*) on why 1vs1 is OMG-ULTIMATE-SOLUSHUNZ0RZ-SCREW JUGG N TEAM AHAHA U NOOB?

Basicball IS NOT A NOOB. For god's sake, learn some respect. Lord Machaar and Basicball are pro.../facedesk



midnight santa -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:35:46)

rat, jugernut is like challenge mode. It shud be 75% win maximum becus ur fiting 2 players.
fake pros jus like to win like before jugernut is out, win 95-99%
how u tink low lvls feel wen dey r 1% to win???



Wraith -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:42:00)

@Above: Wraith =/= Rat

I do not want to "fit" a player, the people working at clothing shops do that kind of crap.

You are not a pro. Never mind fake pro. Now stop slandering others and spreading libel -- it's a crime people can prosecute and sue you for. (I believe)

I don't CARE how other's feel. Say I have a dozen machine gunners and you have an army of people with stick. Right, we shouldn't shoot because "how u tink stik pplz fell wen dey r 0.000001% to win???"

What does this have to do with "challenge" mode? In a challenge mode, you fight someone you deem equal to you (unless you wanna beat up on a newbie for fun).

And what does "fiting" 2 players have to do with percents? I could fight...quite a bit of level 1s, they'd all get 1-shotted.



Stabilis -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:42:51)

Well, Juggernaut could use some fixing! But at the same time players had to pay 20000 credits or 1200 varium at one time just to participate.

EDITED the #s, thank you Wraith



Wraith -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:45:20)

@Depressed: 20k creds or 1200...



midnight santa -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:46:47)

Ok, i wil explain dis very simple. If 2 player is win 2 player is hapy. and if 2 player is hapy, 2 player is maybe buy varium.
If jugernut is win, 1 player is hapy and 1 player is buy varium.
Dis is jus business.



Wraith -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:52:57)

@Midnight: It's not hard, beating a Jugg. Just drain his energy.

And:

i wil explain dis very simple. If 2 player is win 2 player is happy. and if 2 player is happy is maybe spend $10

If jugernut is win, 1 player is hapy and 1 player is spend $200 in future

dis is very simple 200 dolar is more den 20 dollar

Dis is jus business.



I apologize if this is flaming. I did not intend it to be.



Stabilis -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:53:28)

@Wraith,

Ah you are right thanks for correcting that, my long term memory from 1 year ago is obviously pretty bad. [8D]



Wraith -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/1/2012 21:55:54)

@Depressed: np (:

I direly wish it was 900 Var and 25k credits though :P

Yeah, BOTH.



Ranloth -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/2/2012 2:36:58)

I facepalmed.. <.< <.> >.>
Juggernaut is broken at Lvl 33 and 34, midnight. If you can somewhat survive in 2v2 with 2 Lvl 33s or 34s + you & partner, how the hell are you supposed to survive with 2 Lvl 31s with same equipment just 8 less stats and on your own? <_< >_> And no one would like to hear you flaming the best Jugg players in-game and your "knowledge" of Juggernaut without ever trying it yourself and how broken it is at near-cap.

Also 1v1 balance =/= 2v2 balance.
I fail to see how Lvl 34 vs Lvl 29 is better than Lvl 34 and Lvl 34 vs Lvl Lvl 34 and Lvl 29 with no access to top items at all. We all know Jugg is broken and 2v2 scaling currently sucks but Rabble is working on it, on pairing up that is and did ask us for opinions. U get me bro?



Zeoth -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/2/2012 3:06:17)

Juggernaut is definitely broken. If you say otherwise I question your playing experience. It's dang near impossible at level 34. I've faced juggernauts when it's me a level 31 tech Mage and a level 26 lack of equip Bh. Guess what? We still won. And that person was a good jugg. It's really the fact on stats and encumbrenece or however you spell it >_>. Facing one level 31 is actually tough enough in many ways, even worse if their smart. It's scary 3 levels seem meaningless now.

Edit: Fixed some rather embarrassing grammar errors :3



Joe10112 -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/2/2012 3:14:27)

Jugg broken. Dis bad. Fix pl0x. Hi lvl jugg no fare. Srsly. Too OP, 2 mny var nao. No fare, fix pl0x.

Jugg is broken. Let's agree on that. Thank you. Fix a little? Maybe have the level difference be even more now? (Level 34s can fight level 29s and below ONLY? Or something like that?)

That would be more fair. I've jugged my fair share of 2v2 battles (dang you partner who did nothing and died/ran away), won some, lost some.



midnight santa -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/2/2012 3:16:36)

Juggernut will alweys be "unfair" because #1) encumberance #2) 2vs1 #3)varium for buy enhancement.
*Case closed for jugernut



Joe10112 -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/2/2012 3:20:27)

Midnight:

Jugg is unfair because of:

1) Encumberance? What? First time I saw you use a longer word, and I have no idea what you're trying to say. Sad.
2) 2v1 is unfair? I think that's the point of Juggernaut-to play a 2v1 battle. And no, it is not not fair. It is totally fair sometimes, just more unfair than fair right now due to...
3) Rising use of ENH and Varium use in the lower high levels (level 30s or so now have many fully geared var and ENH packed users).





PivotalDisorder -> RE: Balance Tracker (5/2/2012 10:54:34)

this is gettting wayyyyyyyyyy off topic.

wouldn't Juggernaut be less unfair if enhancements didn't come into effect until you were the same level as the item?
encumberance seems to be the gamebreaker here, it needs more of a nerf than -1 dmg/def/res per level.



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