Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 14:05:46)

To a degree, I do support my own question.

I bring this topic up because in my opinion I think that EpicDuel is to be played by skill of choice. Since this game is also formatted for children, perhaps the interface for children can be made more strategic so that youths will be encouraged to think beyond the mechanics restoring and destroying in EpicDuel. I also find PvP to be very simple at times, so perhaps this exchange of skills could add practicality to the meaning of making decisions. Lastly, passives can be used to judge the power of a class since they are 99% used in builds, depending on which passives a class has, is key in judging the overall power of the class.

We can keep the idea of the the current passive skills and transform into active skills, while being balanced and creative at the same time.



white out727 -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 14:12:04)

active skills being your normal skills???



Stabilis -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 14:17:07)

Yeah, those are the skills that you have to click to use, they are called active because they are "ready for action".



white out727 -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 14:20:24)

ok well then i'd say that some passives could be converted into active skills, like shadow arts, then you can up the precentage chance of blocking/stunning! :)



ND Mallet -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 14:22:01)

The only thing I've questioned about Passive Skills is if they're too useful for their classes. My thinking is that a balanced skill compared to another balanced skill would roughly equal the same usefulness thus making it a harder choice to choose between skills and thus allow more diversity for different types of builds due to the skills being roughly the same. But Passives are quite above the active skills because they are free and can't be directly affected by any weapon effect or skill. It becomes apparent at high levels that Passive skills are generally a necessity. There are exceptions to this rule and builds have been made without them but generally you don't have the situation consisting of conflict between skills. If a player were asked a choice between Hybrid Armor or Bunker Buster, most would choose Hybrid Armor. This is generally the same for all Passives.



King Helios -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 16:02:11)

Here's one for Shadow Arts:

*Insert Catchy Name*

Increases your block and deflection rates for four turns.

Level 1: +1%
Level 2: +3%
Level 3: +5%
Level 4: +7%
Level 5: +9%
Level 6: +10%
Level 7: +11%
Level 8: +12%
Level 9: +13%
Level 10 (MAX): +14%

Energy Cost:

Level 1: 6
Level 2: 7
Level 3: 8
Level 4: 9
Level 5: 10
Level 6: 11
Level 7: 12
Level 8: 13
Level 9: 14
Level 10 (MAX): 15



Battle Elf -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 16:22:26)

This would make the game very hard for lower levels :P



Whirlwindstorm2 -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 16:54:39)

Lol, funny I was thinking about this some other day. :P

And yes, I completely agree with the idea of replacing the passive skills. Many level cap players have MOST of their passives either maxed or at a high level. This is the reason why our build variety options are narrowing so drastically. And if we replace these passives (however helpful bloodlust and reroute may be) with other active ones with you having to click on it, i believe much more strategy will be used in the game and make the experience a lot more fun, and that's what we want right?



Soda Pop -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 19:27:38)

Nooooo. I love passive skills. In every game. A game is incomplete if it doesn't have passive skills.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 23:42:57)

leave passive skills alone

this should be in the balance discussion anyways...



Stabilis -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/2/2012 23:54:59)

^

Not implying balance here, but opinions on the relationship of passive and active, otherwise I would have said "active skills should be used because they are more balanced".



midnight santa -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 0:10:35)

^if all is active, EMP will be best skill of all. If der is no passive, nobody wil play dis game.



Mdmarvel -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 1:30:21)

Need passives because we can't always rely on our active/clickable skills, we need passives to rely on whenever we use other skills :))

Besides, I like bloodlust to be passive because a small HP return during low lvls will just waste a turn if bloodlust was an active/clickable skill, instead of just cheapshotting it with passsive bloodlust which gives more dmg and more hp return



drinde -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 4:14:11)

Actually, I approve. Let's see how we can use strategy now!

However, I should say that activating a passive costs 0 EP, does 0% DMG and lasts 2 turns. This would be adequate for a passive skill in my opinion, since STR users would have to constantly reactivate bloodlust... ^^



Ashari -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 4:53:03)

quote:

Lastly, passives can be used to judge the power of a class since they are 99% used in builds, depending on which passives a class has, is key in judging the overall power of the class.


This suggests a problem that passives may be too useful when 90% of builds employ one or both of a class's passives, as is often the case. The passives do have a unique purpose that supplies a constant bonus throughout the battle, whereas active abilities supply a bonus only on the turns used.

If the case is that passives have become a must for any build, then there might be a problem in that they are too strong when you are required to have the passives to be viable. The point of the skill trees is to provide flexibility and choice in battle. Passives that are practically required in every build definitely reduces your options and makes most duels play out the same way and that's something that could use an overhaul. They are definitely an aspect of EpicDuel's combat that need revisiting, but removing them outright isn't the goal.

Most of the passives should probably be weakened so they don't overshadow active skills as much as they currently do. Deadly Aim and Adrenaline are at a level I could consider acceptable for passives, but the two biggest offenders are Reroute and Bloodlust which are practically required in 100% of builds.

I can't say anything definite is planned for the passives yet, but it's something I'll discuss with the development team for upcoming balance changes.



Stabilis -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 11:32:44)

What if we could make passive skills into class-specific traits?

As in, for an example, a Bounty Hunter always has an element of Bloodlust no matter the experience or skill tree. I play(ed) quite a few games, Skyrim being a very good layout of how choosing a race affects the skills and states of the developing character. One instance being that a dark elf has 50% resistance to fire.

So,

Bounty Hunter has the traits of Bloodlust and Shadow Arts, Mercenary has the traits of Hybrid Armour and Adrenaline, etc etc.

This way we can preserve the existence of passive skills, but at the same time create room on the skill trees. And I would have to say that for PvP balance, these traits start off at minimal values and progressively grow with experience (level).

Opinions?



i like bounty hunter -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 12:25:11)

Ok I Agree With You But We Should Have Some Passives Right?



Stabilis -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 13:17:07)

^

Yep, we can keep passive skills, how about having them be qualities of your character so that you do not have to decide to place skill points into them?



Ranloth -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 13:23:42)

I'd definitely like to see class "traits" as bonuses but that'd mean rebalancing it with all classes so it's fair and make the boost small as well in order to retain the balance with damage received and damage dealt, so you won't be dealing more damage than you should and defense would be rendered useless.
And I wouldn't like to see traits to be similar to passive skills, but rather something new really. Like BHs could reduce Poison damage by x%, something along these lines. Bonuses wouldn't be too great to make a difference but could be useful from time to time; simply, if player has the build then he's at small disadvantage perhaps. :P



Stabilis -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 13:32:14)

^

Definitely, there would be more room on the skill trees to make more skills. 'V'

So new skill ideas are always possible (active skills) in the effort for a modern, updated EpicDuel.



Ranloth -> RE: Replace Passive Skills with Active Skills? (5/3/2012 13:34:38)

Hmm, and definitely in the future, if that was to be considered, perhaps get a choice at registering to pick a trait you want from the list but every class would have their exclusive one. Those who registered before that would get free choice, and trait would be possible to change using Varium if you wished so, profit for ED! ;D
But I'll refrain myself to discuss it further here, it's GD and it's more of a suggestion now than discussion and I don't want the thread to get locked. ^^



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