Reasons of overpowered players. (Full Version)

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King FrostLich -> Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 9:38:32)

It's the common urge for every player who wants to rule EpicDuel, getting good builds. Unfortunately, many players are currently strength bounty hunters, tank or strength cyber hunter and strength blood mages although their numbers are slowly depleting. Why? Because we all want to win. Yes it's fun to win and better since we gain credits and experience but winning almost all battles with one build that rules all isn't suppose to be applicable. People want to abuse it just to win and therefore, it sends RabbleFroth to nerf it and forces us to find other builds and limits creativity yet some want to make more and end up getting nerfed well here's the thing: Abuse more, get nerfed even more. That's what I can say and now, to give you reasons why there are OP players who use or even copy builds from others isn't fun especially if you're the one who created it. So, here are some things why we have build copiers and strength spammers as well as tank abusers.


1.) Facebook. As you may all know, even if you do not have one some players can just simply click on your character, get your build and post it around facebook. That's how other players can easily copy your build and soon multiply around everyone. No joke, but I've seen a couple of people who have their profile picture as my character with my build posted on it and that is not funny.

2.) Field Medic Nerf. Thanks to stupid(uncensored) support tactical mercenaries who have abused its usage, we are all forced to have a fixed, restricted health regainer. Now that it is improving only by your level, field medic is useless when critted by another player or gets hit more often. What's even worse is this is the skill that is the most COMPLETELY and UTTERLY useless skill in low levels. Starting at level 1 with a level 1 field medic, you heal 10 health points. What a joke when players hit you by 9's or 11's and it has a 4 turn cooldown.

3.) Agility. The one thing players didn't ask yet devs gave it. This is the main reason why everyone is restricted to low health, more stat/abuse builds. Some have managed to go through it by enhancements and avoid dying even if it means -2 or -4 defense or resistance.

4.) Stat Diminish/Damage > Defense. Ever since RabbleFroth released the so called low - medium weapons revamp, it allowed lower levels to have greater weapon damage. My alt is a bounty hunter level 24 and has a weapon damage of +30. Add the strength damage on the weapon, it's 41-43 damage. Since low levels cannot hit high, they have to increase strength mostly just to win and the only class that can have both of it at low levels are the mercenaries and thus, leads low levels to think strength is what makes them win easy even with high defense. This is also applicable to high levels. Most builds nowadays are strength and even if I get 96 dexterity, that's just 28-34 defense and with weapon damages of 34 plus the strength damage from another player, you'll need at least 3 blocks to win thus supports the fact of field medic not being able to compensate the damage. If not, then die.

5.) Strength. Similar to the 4th reason, technically it's not only strength itself and the stat diminishing that reduces dexterity or technology's ability to increase further, it's that stupid new formula that is making it overpowered. When it comes to % of increased damage this is what makes it overpowered, the new formula is: Strength damage + (weapon damage * % of damage increased from skill) - defense/resistance. The old formula was: Total Primary damage - defense/resistance * % of damage increased from skill. If you set numbers from all these skills and calculate it, you can see that the new formula does greater damage than the older formula even with 30 to 40+ defense. And if I'm not mistaken, players with max massacre and 77 strength(18-22 strength damage) the total damage a player can have is 100-104. So whether you have 50 defense or not, they can still do 50 damage to you and also adds a ton of rage points. In short, the new formula let's you hit very high against tank players but it's crit damage is just slightly increased while the old formula doesn't do that much damage if you have a tank build but hits higher when raged or critted.


I'm willing to accept criticism and feedback if you think I'm not right with my understanding.




drinde -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 9:41:39)

You forgot the Boost factor: Enhancements.




Promaster -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 9:46:33)

Actually, i agree with drinde here. Enhancement broke the game. Believe it.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 9:49:41)

LOL, this is the 1st post that i actually read(In terms of being "really" lengthy" )

Aniways,Pretty much agreed Frost :)




JariTheMighty -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 9:50:44)

I agree with drinde and Promaster.




Promaster -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 9:56:39)

Remove enhancements and non variums and variums would be on par though. But when enhancements first came out, it was only available for primary weapons. It was pretty balance back then, so if this could happen, i'd say there wont be any complains about stat abuse any time soon.




drinde -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 9:58:55)

That's a bit drastic. Would be less griefable if they release weapons with progressively less slots.




King FrostLich -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 10:01:15)

Enhancements was mentioned though in my 3rd reason but I didn't explain it since I'd hope people would already figure it out but still. Removing enhancements is also nice but those who have paid for it will call on massive quits on the game. A quicker way to solve it would be stopping the build copiers since having the same gear with no enhancements means two people having the same stats but I do agree with removing it as long as you cannot see the stats of players.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 10:09:48)

@frost KIng , making the stats invisible, would be pretty much useless, coz u could still see how much DEF/REsis the player has, and if they make the def/resis , invisible too, then how is a player suppose to know his opponents weakness?? and How are you suppose to plan on your attacks?? it would be total a blind play, u test, whats ur opponents weakness by using both kinds of attacks...

and if u suggest, hid the skills, then ....things go even worst... im sure, you know, how..




King FrostLich -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 10:10:56)

Stats are invisible yes but the damage and defense along with its skills, nope. Some players don't even look at your stats and just charge in to attack which makes 2v2 stupid.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 10:22:51)

quote:

Some players don't even look at your stats and just charge in to attack which makes 2v2 stupid


coz of some players, you can't screw up for the rest! espically for jugg, you really need to choose properly , 1 wrong move and your good to kiss a "Loss" .




midnight santa -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 10:27:55)

overpwer is wen a build is no weakness.




King FrostLich -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 10:33:20)

The fact is soul, that you need to know the defenses and skills as well as the damage the player does. The problem is, those "some" are ignorant to even listen to their partners in 2v2. Besides, in a jugg I'm sure most low levels use power builds like bunker buster and multi that's all.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:09:58)

@frost

Just knowing by guess, doesn't help in any way, i know most of them, bunker ,bolt and multi, but how strong, what level, and many more things has to be known...overall , the prob of copying build, has no efficient/perfect solution. making stats invisible..... i guess you have to eat your own words later, when it screw up everything..




King FrostLich -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:11:00)

Your not getting it. What I've said was hiding the stats but not the damage and defense including the skills of the player. It's the least the devs can do to hide builds from being copied.




skeletondude -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:13:26)

If builds are hidden from opponent's then how is the other suppose to counter that??

@Frost: Just showing us the def and res won't help because we won't really know what kinda build they have to counter that...Making the skill tree hidden would make the opponent unsure what course of strategy to make..Total confusion on both sides.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:15:33)

@ skele, exactly ....please some one explain frost...


quote:

What I've said was hiding the stats


That doesn't help in anyway from copying, if you can see the def. and the damage, then what else you need to know, for copying....




Mr. Black OP -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:16:26)

@king
They would just go to this site: http://www.epicduelwiki.com/index.php/Stat_Progression
It would still be just as easy to copy.




Shadow Rouger -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:21:58)

Blanking everything would make dex ch the best... with high emp. Either way there will always be something someone doesn't like about something, but if it's that bad it'll be fixed, in this case idrc




King FrostLich -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:23:20)

Even if they do know the stat progression, not everyone is a smart guy who would want to know the weapon damage and strength/support damage. Perhaps I'll create a picture and let all of you see it.




Ranloth -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:34:49)

Why do I like your threads? :')
First off, enhancements will not be removed. This was confirmed by the Staff so removing them will not happen. Yes they broke the game but there are ways to fix enhancements without giving them a drastic nerf - like enhancements NOT affecting skills but just your damage, defence, etc. Lower power, lower advantage and no abuse on skills. Yay? (not my idea, credits go to Goony :P)

Anyway,
Build copying is a major issue. Even some mere player can look good because of that which really sucks, no sense of being unique anymore. I blame encumbrance effect which only lowers damage.. I don't like seeing Lvl 30 players with same build as my Lvl 34 and on top of it, with same items but 4 less damage! Encumbrance should affect stats as well, sure they will stand less chance against higher Levels but that can be done with improved 1v1 matching or 2v2, closer to your level NOT by letting players 4 levels below you have same build, and just less damage. I thought encumbrance was a good idea, but seeing Lvl 30s having same items and builds as Lvl 34s, it's quite pathethic and tiring to see..
Field Medic.. was nerfed due to TLMs? First time I hear of it, but another poor choice if that's actually true. We all paid by losing Heal just to balance TLMs.. There were probably ways around it, even reducing Heal progression (from 1HP/4 Support to 1HP/8 Support) and that'd be MUCH better than what it is now. So add it to idea of encumbrance; can be fixed but option chosen for now was poor.
Agility is actually good thing but with ONE flaw - it should be scaled by level. So you don't end up with 200 HP at Lvl 20 and get same penality as Lvl 34 player, nor Lvl 34 player having 95 HP at max without penality. Level cap will be raising soon, Agility will force them to maybe 110HP builds at most AND have Focus 5. Hence why Agility should be level scaled and favour everyone not to spam HP but neither have it at 95 at low Levels.. Third option might've been poor, although Agility in itself was a good idea, scaling would've been better with it.
Damage > Defense is known for a while.. Either slow down damage progression or raise defence progression so it averages out. Sure I go for former one as it kills abusers on the way, whilst making players tankier would put non-abuse builds at a disadvantage.

Hope you find this interesting to read, I will look at this thread more and post later if I need to. :3




King FrostLich -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 11:39:17)

Agility was just a bandage like Cinderella or I think Nightwraith said during the livestream but it might still get removed soon.




ScarletReaper -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 13:56:54)

Doesn't matter what you do. There will ALWAYS be op builds out there. The key is to find their weakness and exploit it.




PivotalDisorder -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 14:14:32)

just to add to Trans idea about enhancements and encumberance, wouldn't it be fairer for enhancements not to activate until you are the same level
as the item? It does seem unfair that a level 30 is almost as powerful as a level 34 while level 30 non-vars are really weak and usually can't afford
to fully enhance, many of them can't afford to fully enhance by the time they reach 34. plus varium gear is already superior to non-var.




Ranloth -> RE: Reasons of overpowered players. (5/11/2012 14:21:27)

Penalising enhancements as well? Good idea as they'd basically pick Lvl X weapon rather than Lvl X+4 because it wouldn't be worth but also be worth - are you willing to spend more money, and get same power of weapon at your Level BUT having it improving until required level OR have weapon at your level and get most out of it. This is better than enhancements not activating at all.
Rabble mentioned, I think, revamp of enhancements, so if such a revamp would give certain amount of slots at certain level only, this could work fairly well. ;)




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