RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (Full Version)

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Calogero -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 11:05:48)

I actualy agree with Smackie... What would 100 tokens do? Absolutely nothing...



Smackie El Frog -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 11:05:54)

Comical that doesn't really solve anything. Making the cost x2 and the reward x2 just makes getting flag captures quicker at the same cost. I don't see how that would create competition with flags again.



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 11:19:51)

ok lets have 150 an hour then and no faction allowed to have more than one flag flags will drop quick so room for all



Calogero -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 11:22:50)

A faction exists out of 18 people maximum... I don't think getting 150 tokens per hour would be that dificult... It should be a fixed %

That way Dumping a lot of tokens would work as a disadvantage and it would keep the flag tokens rather ' low ' so that new factions can have a
shot at getting a flag they desire ;)



VIX -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 11:41:28)

We don't have any problem with Tax thingy 100-200 or 10000 maximum if it wasn't fair we can stop donating and save tokens for more things impotant . let's just hope that they make it fair for all people.

-I'm Out of this thread.
-VIX



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 11:42:52)

if that was the case they should give us all our tokens back and we can start again cologero



Smackie El Frog -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 11:46:02)

@Comical
Didn't they do that for CAD already? Now you want them to do that again? It was your own choice to dump those tokens in that flag.

Also nothing is confirmed we are just stating our own ideas. Nothing is in stone so no need to worry about your precious tokens Comical.



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 12:02:23)

smakie i care about the game only [:D]



Digital X -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 12:44:42)

I would just like to double check something here.

quote:

You will gain Influence in the following ways:
PvP wins (1v1, 2v2, Juggernaut)
NPC wins (Within your level range)
Faction Cannons
Token deposits on flags
Controlling flags
Participating in a War Event (Frysteland, Infernal Infiltration, etc)


Did these all gain Influence before, or are some new additions in a way to gain it? I only know of controlling flags, and 1v1/2v2/Jugg battles.



ansh0 -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:22:57)

@Digi

We now get influence for participating in a war.

PS. Can you confirm that we will greet the war next week?



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:30:55)

quote:

If it's to the point where a faction has to invest well over 200k tokens into a flag in order to take it from someone else then that would be overkill, not competition. I personally can't see anyone bothering trying to take that from anyone because it would be a big waste of time and resources when they could just go for an easier flag. Having that much tokens invested doesn't encourage competition at all. If I see a 200k flag and an 80k flag then I promise you I'll be trying for that 80k flag any day of the week. There is no competition there anymore. It's just a group holding on to a flag and having no one lacking the common sense to even attempt to take it away.


i dont see whats ur point.
if we had 200k tokens but only donated 80k and kept it at 80k. then the other tokens could be used to maintain the flag for a long time.
now if we pout all of it there, we have to worry less. its basically the same thing, but with a different approach.

finny how u also mention common sense. u guys are trying to set a new system where newer factions have help. yet common sense would tell u that if ur new, u wouldn't go take a flag right away unless u have a good amount of tokens.

quote:

Comical that doesn't really solve anything. Making the cost x2 and the reward x2 just makes getting flag captures quicker at the same cost. I don't see how that would create competition with flags again.

i dont see how u can create competition by charging more tokens via %.


quote:

Yeah, it shouldn't be a percentage because then those who have put a ton of time grinding as many have already stated here, lose more over time than others. Should be a set rate that everyone pays for the top spot.

thank you.
i just dont understand why punish big factions who put hard work?

IMO it isn't the flags that need to be solved, but rather the amount of tokens u receive from team and juggernaut modes.

1 vs 1: 1 token per win
2 vs 2: 3 tokens per win
Juggernaut: 3 tokens per win

1 vs 1 is about 3 times faster than team and juggernaut.
so i think these rewards are fair. altho, to compensate for this. i think maybe there should be juggernaut and team NPC. since solo has npc.

since team and jugger would have 3 times the reward. 5 npcs per hour for team and jugger should be fair.


quote:

It was your own choice to dump those tokens in that flag

and it was hard work dedication and grind that helped us do it.

Removed inflammatory comments ~Illuminator



Oliver Bell -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:35:03)

These changes look like they will make factions much more interesting. The only change I don't like is the idea of reseting faction influence daily, unless you have daily influence figures and all time influence figure. This is because all time figures are helpful for leaders trying to chart how well their faction is progressing compared to other factions.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:37:25)

Reposting my flag capture suggestion:

General:

•there is no token tax

When the daily calendar resets:

•the first-place faction receives (# of tokens * 4) influence

•the second faction receives (# of tokens * 2) influence

•the third faction receives (# of tokens) influence

•all tokens reset to 0

THAT IS HOW DAILY FLAG CAPTURES ACTUALLY BECOME... DAILY




goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:42:26)

quote:

THAT IS HOW DAILY FLAG CAPTURES ACTUALLY BECOME... DAILY

flag captures aren't daily. they are hourly. (and dont reset)

@oliver

quote:

1 vs 1: 1 token per win
2 vs 2: 3 tokens per win
Juggernaut: 3 tokens per win

1 vs 1 is about 3 times faster than team and juggernaut.
so i think these rewards are fair. altho, to compensate for this. i think maybe there should be juggernaut and team NPC. since solo has npc.

since team and jugger would have 3 times the reward. 5 npcs per hour for team and jugger should be fair.


what i suggested above is for tokens, however it should also be done for influence for team and juggernaut.
that way its more fair for those factions. it would allow those modes to get around the same tokens and influence around the same speed as 1 vs 1.

since 1 vs 1 is about 40-45 wins an hour. (on average)
it seems fair. since 2 vs 2 can hardly do 15+ an hour.



Smackie El Frog -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:44:10)

@ Goldslayer

No where in any of my posts are meant to be agruement fodder. I am just stating my opinion on the matter and I don't appreciate you attacking one of my members by calling him "dumb."

Please stop this nonsense. Not everything is about you CAD members. This is an idea that would effect all factions with flags, not just you.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:45:00)

@smackie
ur jumping the gun too early smackie.



quote:

This is an idea that would effect all factions with flags, not just you.

the ideas im hearing.
like putting bigger taxes on factions with 100K+ tokens. that mainly affects us since we're the only ones who had flags with that many amount. (not counting the recent uprise in that minetower flag)

Remove content directed at deleted post ~Illuminator



Smackie El Frog -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:51:15)

I never said bigger taxes on flags with large token deposits. I said taxes based on the difference between 1st and 2nd place. If you cannot understand that in my post that breaks it down with an example well...re-read it.



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:53:15)

quote:

Example:

Faction A has 100k tokens donated a flag and Faction B has 30k tokens donated.

So the difference between them is 70k and say the tax rate is 5% of the difference between the two factions. That would call for a 3.5k token tax rate for that hour. And it would change the next hour since the 2 factions differences have been made closer together.

With that in place no faction will try to dump truck loads of tokens because their token tax rate will increase that much more with each donation. So it will keep each flag at competition levels!

I understand 5% is a hefty amount when it comes taxing, but I think this could really help even things out when it comes to flags. That way newer factions still have a chance to capture a flag.

for example this.

a tax rate of 5% for that hour >.> i mean wow.

my faction has a flag with 200k tokens and 140k above second place.
that would be 7k tokens taxed per hour. (according to ur idea)

how is that even fair?

newer factions aren't suppose to run with the big factions right away. it takes time and preparing.
u think it would be fair in sports if the game was changed to allow newer players to have a bigger advantage?
no, of course not.

ill use basketball as an example.
if ur getting into a pro league, dont expect to get special treatment because ur new.
if u get into a man's game, expect to be treated like one.
and dont think just because ur new, that ur gonna have advantage over a veteran.

see my point?


quote:

I never said bigger taxes on flags with large token deposits. I said taxes based on the difference between 1st and 2nd place. If you cannot understand that in my post that breaks it down with an example well...re-read it.

that still isn't fair. obviously the 1st place faction's goal is to get the flag, and make sure no one takes it.

how is first place suppose to do that if the odds are super stacked against them?



Smackie El Frog -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 13:55:16)

quote:

I understand 5% is a hefty amount when it comes taxing


I said 5% is hefty. That means I think 5% is too much for a taxing rate. But it was only an example Goldslayer1. Nothing more nothing less. Its a number that can change easily.

So stop being so fixated on it.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 14:04:20)

@gold No one is going to go for the 200k Flag whether they have the tokens to take it or not. While that faction is busy with their 200k flag I'll just spend my 200k on around 2-3 flags and get them all. No one's going to bother spending 1/5 of a million battles to capture one flag when they could just take about 3 other ones and get more influence from those 3. I was talking to Ashari last night and she confirmed that as of that moment, no one is able to take that 200k flag and even if you were to stop investing altogether that you would still have it for at least a month. You're not promoting competition at all when you dump 200k into a single flag. You're just holding it in an iron grasp that no one will bother trying to break.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 14:04:38)

@Gold,

Whoops epic mistake on my part, the flags do change hourly. If you look over my suggestion as a whole, does it work? Or would you prefer that I format it so the idea is hourly and not just at the end of a day?

On the reset topic, your tokens become influence anyhow, so directly converting the tokens into influence hourly/daily would not change your efforts significantly. If your faction is in fact the best flag captor everyday for all days then you would still have no problems then, right? Furthermore, if tokens were converted and reset as described in my suggestion, CAD would receive 800k — 1M influence, is that too much or not enough?

Plus remember, only the top 3 factions receive the flag capture influence, maybe other factions should be compensated though. This suggestion is to have flag captures be even more rewarding, but competitive at any flag, any day. Fun?



goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 14:16:04)

quote:

No one is going to go for the 200k Flag whether they have the tokens to take it or not. While that faction is busy with their 200k flag I'll just spend my 200k on around 2-3 flags and get them all.

the difference is, we're taking 1 flag. and not 3. (had we taken 3, the complains would be worse) by taking 3 flags, yeah ur getting more flag captures, but ur also loosing alot more tokens at a faster rate.
putting 200k tokens into 1 flag instead of 3 is just another form of strategy. while we only took 1, we have a decent flag capture pace and the flag last a longer while. (which in the end would still be the same amount of time as holding those 3 flags. but in a longer stretch of 1 flag.

quote:

No one's going to bother spending 1/5 of a million battles to capture one flag when they could just take about 3 other ones and get more influence from those 3. I was talking to Ashari last night and she confirmed that as of that moment, no one is able to take that 200k flag and even if you were to stop investing altogether that you would still have it for at least a month. You're not promoting competition at all when you dump 200k into a single flag. You're just holding it in an iron grasp that no one will bother trying to break.

then whats the point of having a flag at all? isn't the point of the flag to be the one controlling that area and try not to let others take it...its like having a lead in a basket ball game, and u try to hold it to keep the win. but then the game sets it up where if u have a lead, the next amount of points u get will be lowered just because of a lead.
thats not competition either.

quote:

Whoops epic mistake on my part, the flags do change hourly. If you look over my suggestion as a whole, does it work? Or would you prefer that I format it so the idea is hourly and not just at the end of a day?

On the reset topic, your tokens become influence anyhow, so directly converting the tokens into influence hourly/daily would not change your efforts significantly. If your faction is in fact the best flag captor everyday for all days then you would still have no problems then, right? Furthermore, if tokens were converted and reset as described in my suggestion, CAD would receive 800k — 1M influence, is that too much or not enough?

Plus remember, only the top 3 factions receive the flag capture influence, maybe other factions should be compensated though. This suggestion is to have flag captures be even more rewarding, but competitive at any flag, any day. Fun?

ok so ur saying that a flag would be daily? and each day it resets and that amount of tokens turns into influence?

its not so much the influence thats the problem, its the influence tax. if the flag did gave 1 million influence.
we loose 250,000 influence on the first day. thats not fair either.

Merged posts to prevent double post ~Illuminator



comicalbike -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 14:56:43)

this is meant to be a fun game why not be nice to everyone



Illuminator -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 14:58:35)

I have removed several posts that were off topic. This thread is for discussing the list of ideas in the first post and possibly coming up with new ideas that would improve factions. Keep discussion to that. Use PMs to have personal discussions with people.



DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= New Faction Simplifications and Changes (6/1/2012 14:58:52)

quote:

If the faction has pros in it, who have been in factions before. they aren't really new.
making it alot easier for new factions to have this much advantage will only create faction jumping. (like disbanded and create new one)
as if we dont have enough of that.
I barely see faction jumping right now, factions are boring for most now, except for the ones interesting on being recognized. Though talking about flag issues, the supposedly hacking token factions that got flags had been punished already?

@RabbleFroth: Between, I want to talk a serious issue about factions. My faction Xx Fuerza Latina xX hasn't been awarded with some WDs We have won back in the past *before the war meter was taken out* and I claim for those to be recognized for us, many mods know about this issue since my founder talk and claim about them, so you got any fix or at least award for those WDs we have won legit but weren't awarded? We work hard for those WDs and it is not fair that it hasn't been solved. Many factions have had the same issue also.



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