RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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5rr5 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 10:13:35)

quote:

it is no longer lvl 29 it is now lvl 30. they changed it a while back. yeah but still it makes no difference wat so ever 2v2 has been and always will be unbalanced.

Oh, I didn't know since I haven't played 2 vs 2 in a while. But there is a chance if they changed it to 30+, but lvl 34 can still have better weapons but they at least made 2 vs 2 better [:)] I know that level 29 non variums are happy when they are with a lvl 34 varium and thinks they will win, when a lvl 34 would do anything to change partner xD!




khalidon5000 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 10:30:18)

Actually level 30s and level 34s are able to have the same weaponry.
Due to encumbrance a level 30 can equip level 34 items with a penalty to the damage they deal or a penalty to the amount o def/_/ res the armor gives.




Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 11:15:02)

@ khalidon5000

true but it is hard unless u buy varium or npc like mad because it is very very hard to lvl up from lvl 25 to lvl 30 now due to well jugs when they click 2v2 and 1v1 being hard for all non var without enh. it is not because the exp point are too much the exp points are ok imho but the problem is getting exp. for a lvl 30 to have full set of lvl 34 wep he/she need to farm alot of credits/ be lucky and get at least a few 1k credit drops(broken weps). so lvl 30 are still about the same as lvl 29 right now reason being most new players do not know about npc,power hour and saving credits. most new player waste credits on bikes,silver card and new set weps every 3-4 lvls.well i did that when i made my first file yeah and my first file is well dead now due to the fact that i wasted credits on unnecessary weps and things.




Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 11:43:31)

What needs slower scaling:

Fireball

Plasma Bolt

Bunker Buster

Plasma Cannon

Massacre

Maul (just get rid of the defense ignoring effect)

Berzerker


What needs faster scaling and even improved damage:

(Make all multis have equal damage)

Stun Grenade (Damage and Scaling)

Plasma Grenade (Damage and Scaling)

Intimidate (Nerfing and Scaling)


What needs a higher energy cost:

Bludgeon

Plasma Bolt


What needs a lower energy cost:

All stun moves

All multis

Energy Shield (Make it cost like Defense Matrix)

Venom Strike




Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 12:32:52)

at Above

I find it funny you didn't mentioned in the Lower scaling = EMP

You probably forgot to mention that seeing you are a CH and all




5rr5 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 12:35:26)

quote:

Actually level 30s and level 34s are able to have the same weaponry.
Due to encumbrance a level 30 can equip level 34 items with a penalty to the damage they deal or a penalty to the amount o def/_/ res the armor gives.

But they still deal less damage, damage is the important thing here.




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 12:37:40)

@5rr5 No, damage is completely irrelevant here compared to the fact that lvl 30s are capable of having the stats of a level 34. Damage is only important at lower levels. At higher levels, stats is the most important thing of a weapon.




ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 12:48:33)

@5rr5 1. Your time being here does not automatically make you more experienced and knowledged than anyone.
2. Weapon damage only affects things like Bludgeon, DA, Double Strike, etc. And the difference between 34 and 30 in that case is very small to begin with. Stats on the other hand help with skills and, depending on the stat itself, damage or defenses.
3. I also happen to be lvl 34 and started playing the very first week Artix posted about EpicDuel.




5rr5 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 13:07:43)

So you say, you can use basic weapon and a really good armor. You won't come anywhere with that bad weapons, you will lose every battle. You will need lots of luck, trust me. Weapon IS very important in this game, maybe not in the other games but in ED you will need a really good weapon.




Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 13:31:52)

The choice of build determines the damage to stat relationship 5rr5 and ND.

Strength builds consider Strength stats, Primary damage, and Sidearm damage. Dexterity builds consider Dexterity stats and Primary damage. Technology builds consider Technology stats, Sidearm damage, and Auxiliary damage. Support builds consider Support stats and Auxiliary damage. Though, even this may not be necessarily applicable. Technology builds may mainly use skills and disregard weapon damage (Plasma Bolt build). Dexterity builds may mainly use skills and disregard weapon damage (Multi Shot build). Weapon damage and/or stats, this is really an arbitrary decision.

quote:

Strength: Increases base damage range of Primary, Sidearm, and enhances certain skills. (See Stat Progression)
Dexterity: Increases physical defense, increases the chance to block, and enhances certain skills. (See Stat Progression)
Technology: Increases energy resistance, robot damage, deflection and enhances certain skills. (See Stat Progression and Robot Technology Bonus)
Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries, increases chance to go first, critical strike and rage rate; reduces chance to be stunned and enhances certain skills. (See Stat Progression)


Following stat progressions, it initially takes 4 stat points, then 5, then 6 to raise the base damage range of Primary and Auxiliary damage by 1. So, mathematically, 1 point of weapon damage can save a player 4, 5 or 6 stat points for Strength or Support builds. This is a very arbitrary, very situational, feud. Damage is essential sometimes... and stats are essential sometimes. Either or can be substituted.




Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/25/2012 13:38:43)

quote:

But they still deal less damage, damage is the important thing here.


Caster builds. 'Nuff said.

Point being, there are builds which do not depend on high weapon damage (though high weapon stats are crucial).

I don't actually see the need to argue over this. There are a few reasons why, despite being able to have equal stats as a max-level player, level 30 players are nevertheless greatly inferior to them.

1) 16 less stats
2) 4 less skill points
3) 4 less damage
4) 4 less def/res

-Yet at this point, players utilising caster builds or even fully-enhanced varium equipment will not necessarily be burdensome in the battle-

-But this cuts it:-

5) Much less experience

Unless the player in question is the alt of a highly experienced and accomplished player, he's probably going to make more than a few questionable decisions.

-And this is the finisher-

6) Lack of enhancements

Note that a level 30 player would have way less credits than a level 34 player, especially since he would have used about 65K credits just to attain level 34 non-varium equipment. It is questionable if he have the financial capability to enhance significantly, leaving him at a major stat disadvantage against level 34 players. Particularly level 34 fully enhanced varium players, which appear to be the most common sort of level 34 players around.

Of course, varium can be used to fully enhance their items. But that requires a shrewd comprehension of the nature of EpicDuel finances, a knowledge which is arguably more difficult to attain than battle experience, albeit one that is much more limited than battle knowledge. What I'm saying is that it is not, at first glance, evident that varium is practically useless until the levels near the level cap, since that is so counterintuitive. The average player will find little trouble competing against the rare varium opponent in his lower levels, and will be utterly frustrated to start fighting ridiculously powerful varium users once he hits level 29. Given that he has probably remained non-varium throughout his previous 28 levels, he would probably continue on as a non-varium, eventually giving up to buy varium around level 31-32, or decide to persevere as a non-varium.

What I'm saying is that at level 30, selection pressure may not have set in to an extent great enough as to prompt varium purchase and usage. The few players that do purchase and use varium once they are level 30 are experienced enough to know the true power of the players he is increasingly going to encounter, and that they need not fear a lost investment in varium as they will be able to utilise the same equipment until level 34. They, in other words, would have to react remarkably quickly to the new environment and react in the specific manner of spending real money for a competitive edge, something that most people are rather reluctant to do, particularly since there appeared to be no real need for this in their previous levels.




Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 1:11:13)

i gotta agreed with ND. it is not about the wep dmg it the stats. wep dmg is gr8 but it does not affect a lvl 30 what so ever if he is using a lvl 34 wep because that lvl 34 wep would have about the same dmg as most lvl 30 weps and have more stat than the lvl 30 weps. imho encumbrance should minus stat from the wep too not just the armor,resistance and wep dmg. The point here is lvl 30 should not be able to have almost the same stats a lvl 34. it makes them powerful and gr8 as a 2v2 partner but it is just plain unfair. i know the devs made encumbrance to make lvl 30 be able to fight against lvl 34 but is it impossible for a lvl 30 non varium to have full enh and full set of lvl 34 wep at lvl 30.

back to 2v2 topic. as i said earlier it makes n difference what so ever to get a lvl 30 as a partner and u vsing 2 lvl 34 full variums as the 2 lvl 34 full variums would destroy the lvl 30 unless the lvl 30 is full varium and has full enh too. other than that u will basically get smashed into pulp if u r paired with a non var lvl 30 and vsing 2 full variums which are lvl 34. i m not saying that non variums are uped but its basically impossible to against 2 full varium in 2v2 unless u are full varium/ non var with full enh and your partner is also full varium/ non var with full enh. the devs must do something about 2 full variums lvl 34 partnering with each other.




Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 2:04:15)

I know it was said before, but Support really needs improved benefits, like:

- Scaling Field Medic again with Support, but with diminished ratio than it was before;
- Slightly increasing Critical strike chance scaling with Support.

I would also suggest that once a move is blocked or deflected, the attacker should get slightly more Rage than now, because one block or deflect is a big advantage right now in a match between players with same level, and a compensation is needed.

Taking these into consideration, I think no further Strength moves nerfs will be needed.




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 5:51:10)

@above
As per latest Livestream FAQ, they were thinking about bringing back some scaling to Heal but not as big as before. But whether they'll do it or not is unknown. Also Rabble mentioned another buff to Support, stat itself, at some point so we can expect it to be stronger eventually. :)




RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 8:12:11)

@Luna
That's why they have EMP for , Caster and other High EP builds are there .

Well i'm gonna make a balance review soon due to it being very long .




King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 8:17:18)

I think Fireball should be changed to Support, to give Blood Mages an offensive Support attack.

Bludgeon can be changed back to Berzerker.




RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 8:32:44)

quote:

I think Fireball should be changed to Support, to give Blood Mages an offensive Support attack.

Bludgeon can be changed back to Berzerker.

Or how about this : Fireball being improved by both STR and SUPP ?

FORMULA : Total STR + Total SUPP / 2 , then calculate for it's progression .




Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 12:28:41)

^u know, that was kinda my idea for Static charge too...but no one listened...if u look on the second page of this thread...u will see...




Unknown Nub -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 13:10:39)

Why does the poison on Tact Mercs deal more than on Hunters?
@iNOLIKE [:@]




carabuno -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 17:10:00)

Whats changing on cyber hunter?




SylvanElf -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/26/2012 21:02:20)

First post in a few... but anyway, str abuse BMs and BHs are still steamrolling like no tomorrow.




rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/27/2012 0:59:36)

@ above


I agree. I am a BH (non strength abuser) and I find it VERY hard to try to accomplish creative builds with Strength BM's, Cybers, and BH's running around with tiny defenses.

I have a high tech/5 focus BH and I get called a n00b and loser as the strength abusers demolish me and blocking me rampant. I have 2 times as much dex and a level 9 SA. While THEM, with 100+ strength and defenses around 19+, block MY attacks, deflect MY guns (lol....uh oh...rage moment xD)


I usually win with a 85% ratio, but I am just SO tired of seeing Strength Abusers. I hardly even see Tanks anymore! :O





Magiskee -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/27/2012 1:31:33)

@Raynie

Most tanks are a tactical mercenary and nearly 95% of all tactical mercs do juggernaut lol.




Luna_moonraider -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/27/2012 1:39:25)

str builds are everywhere except in jug mode. jugs tend to use tanky builds. str build are the best build since support got a major nerf. i know the devs are planning to buff support and i m so looking forward to that.

now for some balance issues.

K basically most 2v2er would notice this and if u get caught in this in 2v2 u wont be so happy. yes what i m referring to is faction mates vsing each other in 2v2. some of ya would y the hell is faction mates vsing each other in 2v2 a balance issue. now let me explain... well i was in a faction which do 2v2 for a living and compete for 2v2 medals so i know each 2v2 win for the faction counts and it is a waste of time if u battle your faction mate. time wastage is the main faction people intentionally dc when they see their faction mate on the other side and this is a big balance problem as some faction use this "dirty"/'cheap" method to get fast wins in 2v2. some faction not all but still this is a big problem faced by 2v2ing factions most 2v2 faction use this so called dirty method as they think it is harmless and it is part of the game. imho the devs should prevent this from happening faction mates should not be allowed to vsing each other in both 1v1 and 2v2. reason being in 2v2 it leads to a fast free win for the faction and in 1v1 it is just a plain waste of time. either the devs create a filter to prevent faction mates from meeting each other in battle or the devs should make a penalty for those who run for the faction to get a fast win say maybe -5 wins from the daily faction board or maybe 30 mins of no battling for the runner.




Midnightsoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (6/27/2012 1:50:41)

quote:

I have a high tech/5 focus BH and I get called a n00b and loser as the strength abusers demolish me and blocking me rampant. I have 2 times as much dex and a level 9 SA. While THEM, with 100+ strength and defenses around 19+, block MY attacks, deflect MY guns (lol....uh oh...rage moment xD)


@raynie

lucky...I wish I could have that same opportunity again :(
I remember being a semi tech BH shoving victories into ppl's faces




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