RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (Full Version)

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Dreiko Shadrack -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 7:36:38)

Personally one of the best balance decisions right now would be reverting the block rate & dex difference calculation change that they rolled in a few weeks (months?) back, or at least make it less lenient than what it is at the moment.



GoldenNeo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 7:56:13)

@raynie, no, I became level 35 few hours ago, and I was hoping that the poison damage would also go higher, but it didn't. Same also on the hybrid armor, as in the field medic, it stayed the same.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 8:05:12)

Can we have a vote? Please name first and second choices. 

[size=2]
[b]1. Change Fireball to Support.[/b]
[b]2. Apply my Critical Boost skill capping at 6% (replaces DA)
[b]3. Make Bludgeon require a sword (only for Blood Mages, Tech mages are unaffected)
[/size]


Happy Blood Mage problem-solving.


Option 1: 3 vote(s)
Option 2: 0 vote(s)
Option 3: 0 vote(s)



i like bounty hunter -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 8:17:42)




1. Change Fireball to Support. : ok
2. Apply my Critical Boost skill capping at 6% (replaces DA) : no
3. Make Bludgeon require a sword (only for Blood Mages, Tech mages are uneffected) : no



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 9:06:13)

1. Support already increases both E. Shield and Reflex on a BM. Giving them an offensive skill like Fireball to add to their great defensive capabilities would be deadly. This is why BHs don't have any offensive support skills.
2. Making Fireball support and then giving BMs a skill that further increases their chance to crit would be just pouring gas on the fire. It's not going to happen. Crits are powerful because there is a low chance of them happening in theory(this means don't reply saying "OMGZ, is not low, me get hit by crits 4 times in one battless!!!1!"
3. Sword only skills are a no regardless. The point of a sword is to have higher stats on it but lose out on skills. Class weapons are supposed to ALWAYS be able to use every skill in their tree.



King FrostLich -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 9:18:15)

1.) Yes, it would be the first time BM's use a good support build anyway.
2.) No, if BM's are going for fireball combos with critical boost, won't that make fireball a very powerful unblockable? And you're forgetting that not much weapons have high support stats anyway and even if it isn't high, there are still very many low support builds that will make blood mage slightly overpowered but not perfectly balanced though nearly close to it.
3.) EpicDuel Developer Logic: If two classes have the same skill and any one of the classes needs an adjustment with that skill, the other class's skill will also be changed. I think the way they coded for Bludgeon for Blood Mage and Tech Mage are the same so if one gets changed, the other one will also get changed the same way it will be changed.



kingpowerlord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 9:34:21)

New skill replacing bludgeon:
Hilt smash
Weapon required: sword
Lvl 1: 10 percent extra damage energy: 20
Lvl 2: 13 percent extra damage energy: 21
Lvl 3: 16 percent extra damage energy: 22
Lvl 4: 19 percent extra damage energy: 23
Lvl 5: 22 percent extra damage energy: 24
Lvl 6: 25 percent extra damage energy: 25
Lvl 7: 28 percent extra damage energy: 26
Lvl 8: 31 percent extra damage energy: 27
Lvl 9: 36 percent extra damage energy: 29
Lvl 10: 40 percent extra damage energy: 32


Damage type: physical
Improves with: dexterity

Problem solved.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 9:43:11)

Why would it improve with ANY stat? You're giving them a buff since Bludgeon doesn't improve but by your base damage and you're shoving Dex onto it.. <_< And there won't be Sword-only skills, they are supposed to be used by certain skills but limiting some thus why Swords are a bit stronger and have more stats. Don't count on it + you're making them more OP not weaker.. /le facepalm



kingpowerlord -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 10:00:39)

Lol I forgot they didn't improve however what if it did 25 percent extra damage and did energy damage, also if it improved with dex to a maximum of 40 percent making blood mages try to have more dex instead of strength. And also be able to be used with a staff?

And with cyber hunters all they need now is a new ultimate move that deals physical damage instead of energy damage kind a like supercharge but physical same with bounty hunters give them an energy ultimate move. Also maybe remove emp from cyber hunters and replace with something else?




Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 10:02:03)

25% more and Energy? That's improved Bludgeon (carbon copy) and buff to BMs. I'm not sure that you know definition of a nerf for an unneeded skill since problem WILL persist even if you took Bludgeon out.. Amusing logic.



Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 11:29:45)


I've noticed that delta vault bombs can be equipped but shaded out for use in normal battles. I would propose that this same
feature be applied to boosters for all level 34 and 35 (or whichever top two levels) for 1v1, 2v2 and juggernaut battles.

Are boosters meant to help lower level players compete? Or give an added advantage to high level strong tanks? It is
aggrevating to see how abused this feature is by some of the strongest players. These players do not need to boost,
especially against lower level players who might have a decent chance to win a match. Every day I see this situation, where
fear of losing at all, but especially against a lower level, causes the strong player to boost, taking away most chances for the
weaker player to win. Does this promote fair play? Does it help lower levels once in awhile get additional credits, experience
and encouragement? When the 35 boosts, does it set any kind of example of how to win or lose with some dignity?

I read somewhere that one of the reasons for nerfing multis was that it was "unfair" to those who didn't use a multi build.
As weird as that sounds, wouldn't that logic apply to boosters. Is it "fair" to those who "don't use them"? Is it the goal to
have everyone use boosters out of spite and make all the matches that much longer? Is ED promoting the win-at-all-costs
philosophy?

Probably not, so just take the potential away from the abusers and leave it for those who might be able to use it. The game
will be better for it.







AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 12:06:23)

^
Agreed. Wins have been stolen from me because of tank TLMs abusing two boosters.



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 14:05:21)

^^
lol, yeh, last day i was using my non var 29 alt and i challenged a 34 full varium and when i was going to win he boosted on a battle that dont even gived creds.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 14:33:53)

No they should not nerf boosters at high levels. As far as the people who don't use them go, that's your fault for not utilizing a usefull game feature. For those who DO use them and lose to high level players because of it...That is part of the game. Should we nerf feild medic because it heals more at higher levels too? I think not. Are the ods of a level 29 beating a level 34 much higher even if the DON'T use boosters? not really. Plus, think of it from the level 34-35's point of view. How likely is it that they can beat a bloodmage or cyberhunter without boosters? Very slim. It gives us lesser classes a chance against the overpowered's.



Naruto Uzamaki -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 16:56:48)

I would like to see deadly aim be remove for blood mages since in my views it over powering.



sha 2nd mage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 17:09:54)

If Fire ball is moved on support, BM whould be still OP and get tank .
Nerfing DA or Bludgeon will effect Mages too

I would say, if Bm are getting Nerfed then CH are the next class to be OP .So PA must be removed from CH and Static replaced with some other skill



rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 18:51:54)

@sha

BMs DA should be removed due a little issue from earlier in ED. Remember BHs diamond blades? They were removed cause they synergized too well with bloodlust. People may say Smokescreen, but I have the earlier vids and a lot of BHs used energy blades. This letting BM have DA is like givimg BH diamond blades back.
Just a horrible config.


And with Cybers? 95% of the Cyber community agree that PA needs replaced. However, the removal of SC will NEVER happen. It is the cornerstone of any CH build. Most CHs now will say it is extrely UP compared to Reroute and Bloodlust woth the simple reason that our energy restoration is blockable.

What us CHs want is the removal of PA for a lesser passive and a sligjt adjistment to SC.so that it not only benefit Strength builds.



ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 19:00:17)

@raynie DB was removed because there was no possible way to balance a skill giving increased damage for every melee attack and having that combined with Smokescreen for even more damage. DA gives 10 damage at max every 3 turns and has no way to increase damage further like BHs do with Smokescreen. You can have a damage increasing passive and health regain or a defensive debuff with a health regain or the passive with a debuff but having the passive, the debuff and the regain would be OPd. This is why TMs have the passive and debuff but not a regain for health. A big problem with BMs was their Fireball got a quite large buff to the scaling awhile back in Delta. I do not recall the exact numbers on it but I wouldn't be surprised if it got increased by 8-10 points.



Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 19:00:49)

One last booster comment...

It's easy to say "boosters are part of the game" to make yourself feel better about doing something that just doesn't seem fair or right,
especially when you're the only one doing it and it is truly a huge advantage... There is enough battle manpulation going on when facing
a lower level player that many times it is a close match anyway, due to blocks, crits, etc... How do you think the 30 feels when it is close
and they might have a chance to get a great win, but the 34 boosts in the end? I can tell you this...it's not any respect for clever play...

There was a time when using boosters was considered poor play and the sign of a weak player. Now the game even promotes using boosters
in their "Did You Know" section of the new lag inducing graphics at the end of a battle. Might as well promote poor sportsmanship while you're
at it...




rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 19:04:01)

Personnaly, I
I use boosters. Its an almost must have if you are a jugg. I think that using them shows that you.planned ahead.



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 19:36:27)


1. Change Fireball to Support. Ya
2. Apply my Critical Boost skill capping at 6% (replaces DA) No
3. Make Bludgeon require a sword (only for Blood Mages, Tech mages are unaffected) No


The last 2 are no because with #1 people will have high support then with the increased critical they will have 16% chance to crit and if they have an azrael weapon makes it overkill, also sword only skills are bad because swords are stronger than class weapons because they are usable with less skills.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 20:23:42)

Thank you raynie. Like I said, archlord rastlin how do you expect us lowly techmages and mercs to be able to compete with bloodmages and cyberhunters without boosters? You may call us bad players for using them, but I say you are an unintelligent player for not using them to your advantage. Also if a level 30 is as close to beating a 34 as you mention, then if THEY have boosters they would still stajd a chance right? The whole boosters are bad thing started because a bunch of noob players got mad back in the day when they came out, so they said anyone who uses them is the noob to make themselves feel better. My advice to you? Start carrying boosters just in case. :p



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 20:51:21)

Boosters benefit tanks (lvl cap players) far more than they help non-tanks (lower levels). So if both players use two boosters, the higher level tank gets a (almost) guaranteed win.



Archlord Raistlin -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 20:56:37)

Boosters have been around the whole time... Hey if someone feels it is necessary to boost, then no one can stop them. There are tons of
players who would disagree that the use of them represents preparedness or even cleverness. Back in the day, players actually tried to
help those coming up and didn't mind so much if they lost a match to a lower level. They didn't go out of their way to pwn others at all costs...

I see your point of UP classes trying to compete with blood mages, but that goes back to overall balance, doesn't it? And I can agree with
your point of carrying them just in case. My point is simply that it does not help the playability of the game when players who do not need
to boost, do so anyway... and it's usually those players who do.




Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX (8/4/2012 21:35:43)

I only dislike boosters in a fair fight, you lost fair and square, accept it and stop wasting my time. If your lower lv then feel free to use them.



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