One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (Full Version)

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Stabilis -> One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (7/31/2012 16:02:57)

Even though I am against skills improving by stats (2 unique development structures in a synergy)... I am for non-attack skills to have equal balance with attack skills so this thread is to suggest one option to help Rabblefroth introduce a Support improving Field Medic that can not be exploited.

Requirements:

  • Energy costs

  • Health values

  • Stat Requirements (or none at all)

  • Stat progressions

  • Field Medic limits



    To start off, we should base our health values on energy costs and not energy costs on health values. Why? We need to set some standards first. Too low energy costs and health limits will not stop exploits, too high energy costs and there is less emphasis on other skills but more importantly a burden on stat points usage.

    So, where should the maximum energy cost stop? Well, Field Medic is universal, so we should include the energy limits of all 6 classes and maximize the efficiency. So, I understand that both Mercenaries have the lowest energy limit of all classes at a start point of 43 energy. A maximum energy cost of 43 energy works just fine. Next, all players have energy and may use it. Some more conservatively more than others. So we would want to produce a range of energy costs that is broad. So, the range should drop low, but how low? Well, the maximum energy cost progressions is 3 points at a time as seen in Massacre, Surgical Strike, and Supercharge. 3*9 is 27 energy, 43-27 is 16 energy... 16! The current Field Medic begins at 17 energy... and although I am not sure as to how the original Field Medic energy costs were determined, 16 energy is a fine minimum since both Mercenaries can use this skill twice at the lowest energy value (and Tech Mage may use the skill 3 times at the lowest energy value [48]).

    Alright, since we have accessible energy costs we must now determine a suitable health value based on these energy costs. We will need either a minimum or maximum value ratio for energy to health. Since a known minimum value is 1 energy equals 1 health (stat points equivalence), we can say that the lowest healing would be 16 health given for 16 energy. Fair enough to start? Alright, so now we have a minimum for each energy cost. Now we need a maximum health value. Due to the skill Reroute, we do not want to encounter an infinite chain reaction event of health. Finally I get to use some math functions to make this suggestion look intelligent!

    Here is the logic to limit health values from achieving infinite health return conversions:

    if fieldMedicHealth => fieldMedicEnergy / 0.3
    ...fieldMedicHealth = (fieldMedicEnergy / 0.3) * 0.95 (or 99) #also, round down, not up, for Field Medic (just to prevent rounding from reaching exploitable conditions)

    OK, so there was no mathematical function to solve for a maximum health value to energy cost limit... I lied. Math is just numbers and computer science uses Boolean (True and False) so therefore math is not superior. You may be questioning why I had chosen to reduce the resulting value by multiplying it by point 95. Good question, there are 2 reasons. Firstly, that number, and also rounding down prevents the resulting value from reaching Reroute exploitable values. Secondly, the decreasing value will be used further on in this post so if you would mind seeing this part in the suggestion then please proceed.

    Alright, now onto stat requirements. This is just my opinion, use the current or a different stat requirement for Field Medic if you wish, but I recommend none at all since Field Medic is universal but the Technology stat may not be helpful in respect to anyone. Again, that is just my opinion though.

    Alright, now stat progressions. Since stat points increase by 4 points per character level, 4 is a balanced multiple. However, equipment stats may change drastically over time. For example at level 23, Mjolnir has over 20 stat points and bonus damage (for it's level) while level 22 Primary weapons do not come close. There is no true trait/behaviour in how equipment stats are over each level. But thanks to Rabblefroth who revamped our equipment (weapons) slope, it is more clear. So, for every 4 Support points, Field Medic's health value increases by 1. Where to start, though? 22 Support. Where did I get this number? The highest starting value of all classes is Tactical Mercenary's 21 Support. So, for every 4 Support points past 22 and including 22, Field Medic's health value increases by 1.

    EDIT: Every 4 Support stats is now every 3

    Alright, so we tackled the stat progressions. Anything left? Oh, how could I forget... what about Static Charge exploits? Static Charge is uniquely different from Reroute on the matter of how energy is restored. Reroute is solely dependent on user health, which can be manipulated by both the user and by their opponent. Static Charge is dependent on cooldown (being an active skill), melee connection, and user activation. This thread is not to discuss or balance Static Charge, so do not even go there (without informing me el-oh-el). How can we alter Field Medic so that it respects Reroute and Static Charge exploiting? The energy cost is constant, and the health value has a threshold. Well, one point on how Field Medic is abused is that it is used over and over. So, we can place a limiter on repeating the use of Field Medic! What kind of limiter? One route is to reduce the health value of Field Medic for each time that it is used, to progressively strangle the frequent benefit that Field Medic gives (health) if it were to be exploited in an infinite loop. How much of a reduction to healing per use, though? Any amount that is significant. For example, you can take the average duration of all battles (since Field Medic is universal) and reduce Field Medic's health value by an amount relative to the said average... such as dividing 5 by that said average (highest frequency in turns to use Field Medic), get the absolute value of that result after subtracting 1 from it, and you now have a percent value (as long as the average duration is equal to or greater than 5). An example of this calculation is:

    Assuming the average duration of all battles is 6.

    Reduction
    = |(5/6) - 1|
    = 17% rounded up

    Or you can simply reduce Field Medic's health value by 5% or 20% per use, as long as it is like I stated before, "any amount that is significant", meaning Field Medic has to reduce in health value for each use. Or you could raise the energy cost by 1 or 2 points. OR you could raise the cooldown by 1 or 2 turns... etc.

    Finish.

    So here is the revised Field Medic (or you may say an example):

    Field Medic: Restores your health or an ally's health during combat.
    Energy Required:
    Level 1: 16... max heal = 52 HP
    Level 2: 19... max heal = 62 HP
    Level 3: 22... max heal = 72 HP
    Level 4: 25... max heal = 82 HP
    Level 5: 28... max heal = 92 HP
    Level 6: 31... max heal = 102 HP
    Level 7: 34... max heal = 112 HP
    Level 8: 37... max heal = 122 HP
    Level 9: 40... max heal = 132 HP
    Level 10: 43... max heal = 142 HP

    Weapon Required: None
    Stat Required: 16 Technology at level 1 (+3 per skill level) ; 43 Technology at Max (or no stat requirement)
    Level Required: 1
    Improves With: Support and level/no level (+1 at 22 Support; +1 per 4 3 Support after)
    Warm Up: 0
    Cool Down: 4 (as long as Field Medic is no longer exploitable, you can make this number 3 or 5 even)
    Misc: Field Medic decreases in health value after every use OR Field Medic increases in energy costs after every use OR Field Medic increases in cooldown after every use

    Thank you so much for reading my entire post (even if you just skipped to the end)




  • suboto -> RE: One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (7/31/2012 17:56:47)

    Your forgetting heal loop wont work sadly but the heal skill didnt buff at 35 which it should before long to 61/62 at max.

    Removed off topic content. -- SMGS




    Ranloth -> RE: One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (7/31/2012 18:16:09)

    @suboto
    He's discussing Field Medic, not yout wanted buff to Mercs and TLMs due to Support-based Multi. There's nothing bad in that and they are discussing to bring scaling back to Heal but at lowered numbers so it won't be exploited again as before. And Support isn't most useless, if you never tried the build in current era then you won't know if it still works well. FYI, my Support TM could stand CHs with their EMP purely because I had great Malf that went with Energy Aux, good Matrix to counter Physical attacks (if any) and ability to deal good damage with other weapons due to DA. Support to improve Bots? This is Field Medic thread and that won't happen since Tech already does it & Rabble was working on a separate buff to Support sometime ago.. <.<




    rej -> RE: One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (7/31/2012 21:41:05)

    Question: Is the revised field medic example near the button applied to a level 1, or level 34-35? If it is applied to a level 34-35, then the health return is much too low.

    I love the idea, aside from Field Medic having diminishing returns after repeated use. Idea belatedly supported.




    Stabilis -> RE: One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (7/31/2012 23:17:12)

    @Suboto,

    Yes, Field Medic today can not be abused. It did, though, in the past which was: pre-Field Medic nerf as well as pre-Support nerf. It can come back as a Support skill, but Rabblefroth needs to get the right structure to prevent exploiting the skill.

    @Trans,

    Thank you for explaining.

    @Narej,

    When I think about it myself, yeah, 16 health and 16 energy is good for a level 1, but too little for a level 35 who's stat points exceed 140 points in levels alone nonetheless excluding how high the damage may be each turn.

    What I want to encourage though, is statting the Support stat to get the most out Field Medic and not being able to go overboard. I am considering changing the improvement rate from every 4 Support stats to 3 just to give statting an easier time to improve Field Medic without having to abuse the stat for example having 150 Support just to get the best possible heal. With limiters mentioned above, we can more lenient as to how much power Field Medic is given. Thanks for bringing attention to this area.




    Ranloth -> RE: One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (8/1/2012 5:47:57)

    Hmm, I just read it all and promised you some feedback so I'll post it here now.

    Since you say 16 HP is equivallent to 16 EP, why are BL and Reroute numbers a bit off? I know they are different tiers but you can survive without EP and still fight, and without HP you cannot. You should look at that one since it may affect your numbers slightly but nothing to bother about really.
    1HP/3 Support. Starts off at 22 Support for 16 HP. I'll use nice number of 112 which gives me 40 points of HP. I can pull it off easily at Lvl 34 with Support build so y'know. That's 56 HP for 16 EP. At Level 5, with 28 EP cost, I'd get probably 8/12 more HP - can you mention how much more HP you get per Level, would help a lot - but you see, you're meant to train skills to get them to be more efficient as you train them and and your version here does the opposite; it's less efficient as you train it, and all due to high EP cost. Unless you mention how much it goes by per Level, I'd still say your EP cost needs crippling down and raise it 2 per Level, making it 34 at max which is -1 less than now. Am I crazy? No! We can cripple down EP cost easily, now we can make penality for re-using it bigger! Allow me to use my example from above:
    - 16 EP gives me 56 HP
    - Per every use, its efficiency falls down by a whooping 10% (not 5%)
    - 2nd cast will give me 49 HP for 16 EP
    - 3rd cast will give me 43 HP for 16 EP
    - And so on.
    Why 49 -> 43? If we go by 10% of previous number, penality would be smaller so I assumed you meant penality from original value throughout the whole fight. And I'm sure players would prefer lower EP cost anyway for Heal and perhaps bigger penality which seems fine now; we're looking at 112 Support example now and Lvl 1 Heal & if we take Lvl 5 Heal that costs more EP but gives more HP, the penality will be bigger for using it as you can see. Or what we can do is keep the scaling at 1HP/4 Support and make the penality 5% instead (example time!):
    - 112 Support gives me 22 more HP
    - 16 EP gives me 38 HP
    - Per every use, its efficiency falls down by 5%
    - 2nd cast will give me 36 HP for 16 EP
    - 3rd cast will give me 34 HP for 16 EP
    Numbers, as you can see now, resemble those that are here at top Level. I'm still unsure about your progression and if there will be Level scalling that will raise it by small amount ever few Levels. If you planned on making it scaled per Level like it is now, above example would be slightly weak since current Heal does that with no Support so then I'd say Support/5 is way to go + Level scalling:
    - Lvl 1 Heal at Lvl 34 is 33 HP
    - 112 Support gives me 18 more HP
    - 16 EP gives me 51 HP
    - Per every use, its efficiency falls down by 10%
    - 2nd cast will give me 46 HP for 16 EP
    - 3rd cast will give me 41 HP for 16 EP
    As you see here, I actually used 10% penality per cast since the Heal would be significantly bigger and so should the penality be with it. And 51 HP with 112 Support at Lvl 1 is still quite a bit, but we're looking at penalities and slower progression, as well as very high level to get it that far. Of course it still may seem like a bit, but that's for you to work out how to make it improve when you train it but not cripple which would make it less efficient as you train it. Last example looks best in my opinion since Heal would improve with you, although I'd say penality could be slightly bigger - up to 15% - which would ensure it won't be abused.

    And big no for requirement. You mentioned Heal being universal and not all classes may be fine with Technology requirement + it's not needed if you find efficient way to penalise it without shoving requirements onto it. ^^




    suboto -> RE: One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (8/1/2012 11:09:44)

    But support is useless for merc/tlm because the multi are just to weak and mage and hunter get dex/tech multi's more useful lol
    Max heal for support buff field medic
    75hp or 80hp no higher

    Trolling removed. -- SMGS




    Stabilis -> RE: One Suggestion for Field Medic Improving through Support (8/1/2012 19:57:20)

    quote:

    Since you say 16 HP is equivallent to 16 EP, why are BL and Reroute numbers a bit off? I know they are different tiers but you can survive without EP and still fight, and without HP you cannot. You should look at that one since it may affect your numbers slightly but nothing to bother about really.


    Haha, true, 1 point of health may not realistically in battle be as equal to 1 point of energy, but using stat progressions, 1 stat point is equal to either 2 health or 2 energy so I use that equilibrium to define my balance dillemmas according to stats. Reroute and Bloodlust must have been altered for balance reasons unbeknownst to me. Perhaps at a time their numbers were higher and so had to be lowered to those strange maximums of 23 and 30%.

    (Continuing this response soon)




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