RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (Full Version)

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AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 17:41:26)

@ScarletReaper
quote:

Also, it shouldn't matter how cool the special is. Varium bots should do more damage than non variums.

Heavy bias here. I'm sure everyone with a common sense would contradict that.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 17:49:24)

AQWPlayer did you see how fast people were complaining about the infernal Android when it came out because of the special ability it had? Also do you see how they grade the non variums to the variums bots? I mean other then the pyro fly which matches the infernal android in strength every other bot is more powerful (Offensively) then the non varium bots.

Also did you hear how many people wanted the Rusted assault bot to get a stronger nerf then the Assault bot? As much as I would like to agree with you a lot of people want the non varium bots to be weaker not equal in power to the varium bots. I myself was upset for a bit because of the way they nerfed my favorite bot, but at least it still keep's it's physical strength and is tied for second strongest with the baby yeti.



rej -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 17:58:51)

quote:

Heavy bias here. I'm sure everyone with a common sense would contradict that.


Not necessarily. Varium items should obviously have an advantage over non varium- bots included. Though i have to admit, Pyro Fly would be overcharged no matter what it's base damage was. The special is just too useful to matter.[;)]



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 17:59:58)

Oh...sorry lol. I thought you were heavily undermining nonvars; forgot rusted assault had 8-12. Well then...idk. Anyway, varium has been OP for too long, and only like 10% of the population of the 30-35 lvl range is nonvar, which should be the exact opposite. I suppose we all see how much more fun this game would be if there were more nonvars and a better challenge (by that I mean a strategic challenge, not the traditional win-goes-to-whoever-gets-lucky-or-spams-more-stats)
@rej don't ninja meh -_-



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 18:27:57)

AQWPlayer I was a nonvarium for 32 of my 35 levels, and when I was my record was thrown through the ringer. This is because the class I was and am now tech mage was one of the most hammered on classes if you didn't use a caster build (When I was leveling up Plasma rain was powered by tech not dex so it was easier to destroy things with tech) as well as things were very expensive (Credit wise since you barely gained credits to purchase stuff) So as I said my record was shot through the ringer.

Also with the cost of enhancements for equipment for non variums it is extremely hard for most to compete with variums. For whose who can compete kudos to you. Also it wasn't until recently that saw how hard it is for non variums to fully enhance one item. through out the war I fought in over 7,000 battles and through those I was only able to power up 2 items fully with credits (But without the class changes I made it would have been 4) But you see where I am getting.

It just that much harder for non variums to do half the stuff that variums do not to mention when one non varium item is more powerful then the others it is nerfed.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 18:43:29)

'Tis obvious enough that in a game where you do mostly PvP, balance is more than top priority. For some unjustifiable reason, this game can get addicting tho. BUT! the fact that some stay does not excuse devs from taking advantage of them to get even more money.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 18:50:16)

^ While this is true, they did give player away to get varium items through missions, as well as earn varium in epic duel gamma. It just takes longer to earn. If they didn't care they could have never given non variums the chance to earn it at all.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 20:29:49)

I am not really amused. If Infernal Android is getting that much of a nerf, I'd like my credits back. I bought it because I thought it would be a good non-blockable attack that I could use in my Massy Build. (Malfunction -> Static -> Infernal Bot -> Massacre), but now it doesn't seem good.

And please, just nerf Rusted Assault Bot. I mean, c'mon, although I won mine in Arcade, it doesn't seem quite fair to have the RAB cost 14k credits and have the exact same debuff skill...



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 20:46:55)

Joe10112 the bot was vastly overpowered to the point where it was forcing people to use focus builds, with the bot to counter those who used it. It was literally destroying the game's already messed up balance. The devs even admitted that they didn't intend for the bot to be that powerful so need several nerfs to balance it.

You know it is overpowered when in 7 turns someone with 90 health loses to someone with 7 health because of one rage energy blast. Not even crit surgical strike (without the war weapon) could do this much damage.



Joe10112 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 21:22:26)

@Mother1: IDK how OP it was, beacuse I never got to use it yet. But I did buy it because it was supposed to be really powerful and it fit my build. Now I'm not sure if its useful enough.

But even if IA is nerfed, I still think the Assault vs. Rusted Assault thing should be taken into account...regular AB should have 80%, and Rusted should have 65%.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 21:47:47)

They nerfed them because they were the most used bot, and made debuffing almost worthless. Plus if the Azreal borg got nerfed the assault bot would need an equal nerf since they both removed the opposite effects by the same percent.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 22:07:05)

@Mother1: At this point, I think there is more bot diversity now such as some use Assault, Bio Borg, Gamma, etc. rather than sticking to Infernal.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 23:20:39)

I played a couple of duels today and from what I saw most people either had the infernal android, assault bot, or rusted assault bot. As for me, even though I have a wide choice of bots (since I own most of them) I will stick with my azreal borg. It was the first robot I ever owned and hold a place in my heart. Though with the pyro fly I think they should make it's attack defectable instead of blockable since it does use a laser to attack, but then again it is the only bot that does an normal attack with a laser but I still think it should get it since a non physical energy attack.



AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 23:41:10)

I think Infernal bot should improve by 10% per turn OR just remove plasma armor from CH and promote defensive builds.



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 23:42:57)

For me Azrael Borg is OP, Good that not much people uses it.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/19/2012 23:44:10)

AQWplayer less then a week ago you and a lot of the masses were gripping about the bot needing to be nerfed, now you want it to be buffed so soon after it was nerfed? Is it just because it is less effective on CH now then it was before?

Rayman you think the Azreal borg is still overpowered after it got not one but two nerfs? Also if they are going to nerf the Azreal borg again, then they would have to nerf the assault bot and rusted assault not to keep the balance between effects. But on the note of people not using that bot a lot you are right since not only is at a perma rare like gamma, but people are using the assault bot, rusted assault not and the infernal android more then the rest.



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 0:48:41)

If The bot lazers beans attacks are going to be deflectable, then the deflection should go to Support. Because, you just Need to Spam TECH and use the bot and not get blocked and they wont deflect you that much, Giving a free high dmg attack vs the ones that dont abuse tech and use high dex on focus builds.



heroquest -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 3:16:24)

i think is the bot need a better focus like X7 and i agree with rayman for change deflect on support [8|]



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 3:36:05)

offtopic



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 4:41:52)

The only reason they made the beam deflectable is because recently with new coding skills they finally were able to make it possible. Besides if the beams were still blockable it would be the same problem since all the tanks would need to do is spam dex and tech to make the beams low damage and highly blockable. Plus with the beams being blockable it gave the hunter class an unfair advantage since shadow arts increase your chances for blocks.

However with the beams being deflectable while you may not like the idea of doing only half damage due to deflects remember that you will get damage with the attacks no matter what. Also with deflects relying on tech and not being able to block them everyone has the sane potential for deflects since all classes have the same max percent chance for getting deflections. it is just that those with higher tech have higher chances for it since deflects rely one tech.

Lastly I disagree with the changing back deflects to support. Remember most debuffs already work with support. If it was changed back to support I can see people going back to spamming support to get the high chance for deflections like it the past. Not only that there will be higher chance for abusing the damage especially with tech mages and cyber hunters since they both have malfunction. It was already bad enough when the hunters had the unfair advantage with shadow arts when the beams were blockable. changing deflects back to support will give Cyber hunters and Tech mages or of an edge with energy bot attacks.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 4:55:10)

@Mother1
But did you know that they unnecessarily nerfed Support from the previous times? Field Medic's very fast progression was the reason why they nerfed Support , but it would be better if it was in a slower scaling . And besides , what other weapons ( items ) does Support improve? They improves shields and debuffs , true , but still doesn't change the facts that it was actually balance by having its benefits luck-based and very limited in options , i mean , what were the other effective options aside from Heal , Debuff , Shield/Buff and Aux when you spam Support?

In addition , there is the Delta Set , where this set decreases Support by 20 , that's still big for Support spammers . Plus , First Strike isn't always in their favor so don't hope that a guy with a build-breaking build would lose much often unless you Crit a lot .



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 5:16:18)

For merc's and tech mercs there multi attack as it is the only offensive move that is powered by support. Plus I am speaking from experience. I have seen and felt what a support tech mage and support cyber hunter can due with their malfuctions. Plus as I said before with them nerfing the assault bots as well as the azreal borg the only bots that could effectively remove most of these threats support build could cause problems. also with the new mutating weapon from the war and a support spam build getting crits on you? which chances aren't as good as the quick kill blood mage if they do manage to crit you it would be like the infernal android before it was nerfed all over again.

Also don't forget the delta armor and weapons can only be gotten by varium players (Since they cost varium) what about non varium players who can't get these items? They will be at the mercy of the support spammers. also even varium player will be relying on 13% chance that the armor/weapons does a 20 point nerf, and even if it does nerf them that is 20 points which if someone has spammed support won't effect them as much. Then let's not forget about the assault and rust bots. Even though they were nerfed they can still remove a 13 points from that 20 leaving only 7 of that nerf which is hardly anything.



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 5:49:51)

quote:

For merc's and tech mercs there multi attack as it is the only offensive move that is powered by support. Plus I am speaking from experience. I have seen and felt what a support tech mage and support cyber hunter can due with their malfuctions. Plus as I said before with them nerfing the assault bots as well as the azreal borg the only bots that could effectively remove most of these threats support build could cause problems. also with the new mutating weapon from the war and a support spam build getting crits on you? which chances aren't as good as the quick kill blood mage if they do manage to crit you it would be like the infernal android before it was nerfed all over again.

Okay , i guess you didn't get me . See , even if they crit , the question is ... how much Support do they need anyway just to Crit more often? Besides , i don't think you can bot deal more than 40+ Bot Damage whilst having high Support ... and low Technology . And i don't remember anything about Support spam builds doing 5 Focus bot damage .

quote:

Also don't forget the delta armor and weapons can only be gotten by varium players (Since they cost varium) what about non varium players who can't get these items? They will be at the mercy of the support spammers. also even varium player will be relying on 13% chance that the armor/weapons does a 20 point nerf, and even if it does nerf them that is 20 points which if someone has spammed support won't effect them as much. Then let's not forget about the assault and rust bots. Even though they were nerfed they can still remove a 13 points from that 20 leaving only 7 of that nerf which is hardly anything.

Varium or not , that still doesn't change the fact that it can counter Support Builds , and using Assault Bot / Rusted Assault Bot would just give the opponent an opportunity to do something game-breaking .

Also , you have to remember that they'll end up having low DEF/RES due to them spamming Support , while the rest get to have exceptional damage while being tankish at the same time .



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 6:22:07)

Ok have you ever heard of focus builds with high support? I have seen people make decent focus builds while still spamming a certain stat. While they all may not be level 5 focus builds even level 4 focus can hurt if done correctly. You don't need max focus to deal decent damage from a robot attack. Plus don't forget about enhancing items. With the right combination of items you can get high support and still have good focus for the robot damage.

While you have a point on your final statement I have one also since this counter can only be used by Varium players. Non variums are currently without any counter to this build so what about them?



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Upcoming Bot Balance Changes (8/20/2012 6:37:21)

quote:

Ok have you ever heard of focus builds with high support? I have seen people make decent focus builds while still spamming a certain stat. While they all may not be level 5 focus builds even level 4 focus can hurt if done correctly. You don't need max focus to deal decent damage from a robot attack. Plus don't forget about enhancing items. With the right combination of items you can get high support and still have good focus for the robot damage.

Well , that really depends on the gear , because some have a tendency to make things OPed . And , BTW , what about STR & Tank builds? They can make 4 Focus + STR/Tank builds as well , as what you have stated on Support . Also , Support increases Aux Damage , while STR increases Primary and Sidearm Damage and Tanks , however , deal more damage , and have a higher chance of Deflecting / Blocking or both . And do i even have to mention the skills STR , DEX and TECH improve that what makes them better? Pretty sure you already know them .

quote:

Non variums are currently without any counter to this build so what about them?

See the statement i've mentioned above .



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