RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (Full Version)

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steven11113 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/25/2012 18:45:54)

A. Maybe buff static charge like:

Level 1 remain at 15%
Then 3% more per level until level 5.
From level 5-10, they gain 2% more per level.

So 37% would be Max static charge.

or
B. Level 1 nerf to 10%
Then 3% more per level until level 10

So 37% would be Max static charge.
This one make people invest more skill point than A


From 15% static charge at lvl 1 and 30% at level 10, it only double more compare to
shadow art at 1% at lvl 1 and 10% at level 10, it 10x more powerful than level 1 shadow art



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/25/2012 19:13:20)

Doomturtle easily for some classes but not others. I will have you know I was fighting two tech mages in two vs two and one of them was a caster spamming tech with the other with a high level technician.

The caster already had 154 tech and gained a 46 tech bonus from technician. He plasma bolt me with rage and scored 74 on me without critting. Plus my resistance with armor and agility bonus is 36-42 meaning I am already have high resist. Also for a Tech mage who isn't a caster that is really hard since our energy draining move is the only one that works with reroute unlike atom smasher and emp since ours does damage. So while it is nice that it does damage unlike the others it is a double edged sword when dealing with other TM and TLM since their reroute not only cancels out energy loss, but if the damage is good enough gives them back energy.

Steven11113 even if you were to buff static by 7 percent the energy gain at best would be 2 more energy points which would have those who are complaining about static being the way it is saying that the buff isn't enough and complain that they are still underpowered because of it.



DanniiBoiixD -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 7:19:52)

@doomturtle Amen



RageSoul -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 7:24:36)

Some very useful and/or good buffs :

Bounty Hunter - either one or 2 of these buffs , not all.
--> Make Shadow Arts heal back Health based on the % of damage that you're supposed to receive if you didn't block. Only works for BH .
Level 1 : 10% ; Level 10 : 18% ( 1% for levels 2 - 4 , then 3% for levels 7 - 10 )

*Note : SA's name can be changed to Blood of Shadows ( the name was used before in my previous idea about a new BH passive giving bonus DEX based on base DEX , not total DEX )

--> Buff EMP Grenade's EP Drain for a few points ( at least 2 or 3 ) . Again , only applicable to BH.
--> Give Reflex Boost a 20% Reroute plus 2 points of DEX bonus increased . See above boldened conditions .
--> Make Smoke Screen able to negate the minumum Block chance to 0 % but does not decrease Shadow Arts Block % bonus .

Mercenary - any one or 2 of these buffs.
--> Give Hybrid Armor the ability to ignore % of Rage's Defense/Resistance Ignore . Only for Mercs .
--> Give Adrenaline the ability to restore EP by % per level for every Rage Attack done by weapons / robots ( skills not included ) . Only for Mercs .
Level 1 = 10% EP regain ; Level 10 : 20% ( based on lost EP )
--> Strengthen Intimidate by weakening EVERY Weapon Damage based on % . Lasts for 3 turns . Only for Mercs .
Level 1 : 12% ; Level 10 : 20% .

Tech Mage - choose any of these but not all .
--> Buff up Technician by 2 points for every 10 DEX you have .
--> Defense Matrix gets its bonus Defense increased by 1 and Assimilation's EP regain gets increased by 1 point for reaching from 3 to 5 Focus . Only for Tech Mages
--> When Technician is activated ( either to you or for your ally ) , you get an additional 4% Deflection Rate minimum .
--> When Malfunction is used , it decreases minimum Deflect chance to 0% .

Cyber Hunter - either one of these .
--> Make Static Charge's EP regain based on % of Primary weapon's Damage
Level 1 = 10% Ep regain ; Level 10 = 30% EP regain
--> Give Plasma Armor the ability to negate 5% of incoming Energy Damage .

Not sure about Blood Mage , but the rest , here's what i come up so far .



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 8:50:35)

Lord aegis many of the those buffs would either be undoing some old nerfs or will overpower a class.


Your shadow arts idea for bounty hunters? No they already have blood lust and to make shadow arts give them back health would be extremely OP
EMP buff No never! EMP is the best energy draining skill in the game since it is granteed and people already want it weakened or moved and you are thinking about buffing it?
For the reflex boost one 5% more energy seems ok.
For the last one NO! that would make them OP str builds would have a field day with this one as it would be abused big time.

For Cyber hunters

For the first one no that would be like undoing the nerf since it was originally based off of primary weapon damage (AKA raw damage)
For the second one no as well, People were already upset about Plasma armor causing the nerf to their precious static and you are suggesting they buff it? This would be undoing the nerf they did to plasma armor.

For Tech mages

Buffing technician while it would be nice would make the caster TM even more OP especially the tech abusing TM
For the second one while this would be nice people would think this would be unfair due to it only working with focus build of 3-5 though it would be nice to have some extra rewards for focus
When you use technician your deflection chance already increases since your tech is going up
For the final one no this would be OP malfunction big time since a level 1 malf that might remove 14 tech would make gun, aux's and any other skill that has deflection chance always hit with full power so no.

For mercs

I am iffy on this one. While it would be nice, some builds would abuse this ability especially tank mercs who have high defense.
Sounds nice, but I can see several builds abusing this ability big time. Support and str builds would abuse this the most since aux and sidearm damage is unblockable and can be OP with str and support builds.

Seems fair because that would only add auxs to it since intimidate works with the primary and sidearm as it is now while it won't affect other moves such as bunker blaster, and surgical strike. But at the same time the only reason it doesn't affect all weapons is because aux's work with support.

All in all most your ideas would either OP something or in CH case with static idea undo the old nerf.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 8:52:54)

Lord Aegis.... It would seem you are pulling a page from Hun Kingq's book except for all classes...

how to OP classes 101

Can the Joking Balancers please just go somewhere else and let the ones that are serious about this discuss about Balance in peace

v different classes but both have the same ' ideas '



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 9:16:37)

Calogero hun only tries to OP blood mages while underpowering the rest.



Darkwing -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 9:23:34)

how to balance OP str bh and str bm. Bloodlust is the key to their builds, because the more damage they do...they less they have to worry about HP. Make bloodlust have a fixed amount of HP that you get, not based on damage.



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 9:34:37)

quote:

Bounty Hunter - either one or 2 of these buffs , not all.
--> Make Shadow Arts heal back Health based on the % of damage that you're supposed to receive if you didn't block. Only works for BH .
Level 1 : 10% ; Level 10 : 18% ( 1% for levels 2 - 4 , then 3% for levels 7 - 10 )

--> Buff EMP Grenade's EP Drain for a few points ( at least 2 or 3 ) . Again , only applicable to BH.
--> Give Reflex Boost a 20% Reroute plus 2 points of DEX bonus increased . See above boldened conditions .
--> Make Smoke Screen able to negate the minumum Block chance to 0 % but does not decrease Shadow Arts Block % bonus .

Wouldn't that make Bounty Hunters more powerfull? Resulting in massive OPness? You sound like Hun.

quote:

Mercenary - any one or 2 of these buffs.
--> Give Hybrid Armor the ability to ignore % of Rage's Defense/Resistance Ignore . Only for Mercs .
--> Give Adrenaline the ability to restore EP by % per level for every Rage Attack done by weapons / robots ( skills not included ) . Only for Mercs .
Level 1 = 10% EP regain ; Level 10 : 20% ( based on lost EP )
--> Strengthen Intimidate by weakening EVERY Weapon Damage based on % . Lasts for 3 turns . Only for Mercs .
Level 1 : 12% ; Level 10 : 20% .

You crazy dude. So we can have like a huge damage dealer along side with a great passive Energy regain. Good work!

quote:

Tech Mage - choose any of these but not all .
--> Buff up Technician by 2 points for every 10 DEX you have .
--> Defense Matrix gets its bonus Defense increased by 1 and Assimilation's EP regain gets increased by 1 point for reaching from 3 to 5 Focus . Only for Tech Mages
--> When Technician is activated ( either to you or for your ally ) , you get an additional 4% Deflection Rate minimum .
--> When Malfunction is used , it decreases minimum Deflect chance to 0% .

Read the above. How could this be good things? Okay, the Assimilation one is good. But the rest is just blah.

quote:

Cyber Hunter - either one of these .
--> Make Static Charge's EP regain based on % of Primary weapon's Damage
Level 1 = 10% Ep regain ; Level 10 = 30% EP regain
--> Give Plasma Armor the ability to negate 5% of incoming Energy Damage

On the Static Charge yes, the Plasma Armor no. Seems like this class woould be the worse if everything was by your suggestions.

Too many buffs, much of them not needed, don't be Hun.



King Helios -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 9:44:26)

quote:

--> Buff EMP Grenade's EP Drain for a few points ( at least 2 or 3 ) . Again , only applicable to BH.


Yes! Because 40 EP taken isn't enough! (I have 80 tech, but still...) (Level 6 EMP)



If you think about it, EMP isn't too OP. If at Level 6, I can take 40 EP (much more than more Hunters), I lose 15 EP. That is a +25 differential for me.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 9:51:01)

King Helios EMP depending on what build you use and the equipment stats can be OP. Most of my equipment has high tech bonus and when I played as a cyber hunter my EMP would do 31-32 damage at level one.

Wootz for the static charge one he suggested doing that would be putting it back to raw damage which it was already nerfed from since static basically worked with your primary damage before. Basicially as I stated before it would be undoing what the develops did to it in the first place.

However at least he was trying to OP all the classes unlike hun who only does it for Blood mages while wanting to leave everyone else underpowered.



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 10:16:32)

^actualy he only tried OPing all classes Except BloodMage lol



Wootz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 11:04:43)

Hahahah, if only Hun was still here to see it! :D

Okay guys, so tell me. What do you think what classes (and builds) are most common, most used and win the most these days?



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 11:34:15)

Blood mage= Strength build mostly at first now since the nerf strength and focus builds
Tech mage= Caster build, and this new support mage build that has devastating buffs and malfs
Bounty hunter= Strength massacre build and some EMP builds
Cyber hunter= Emp, strength, and dex builds
Tech merc= Strength and tank focus builds
Mercs= Bunker/surgical strike build and str builds.

But on another note here is a passive I mentioned for the hunter classes to replace shadow arts, however I added somethings so it won't be OP like other people feared.

Deflection arts deflects X percent of non melee damage back at the opponent.
Stat required support 40 at max
improves with none

Level 1 3%
Level 2 4%
Level 3 5$
Level 4 6%
Level 5 7%
Level 6 8%
Level 7 9%
Level 8 10%
Level 9 11%
Level 10 12%

Extra condition When a player uses the bio borg's special ability the passive shuts down for the duration of the bio borg's buff. When the buff wears off this passive becomes active again.

so what do you think of the new revised version of this passive I thought of? It would remove the unequal advantage hunters have with blocking, but at the same time gives them a passive that doesn't work with chance. So what are your thoughts on this passive?



Calogero -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 13:13:53)

Still seeing the same builds really, the only big difference I've seen is the TLM Stall build...
High Heal, 2 boosters, and just stall the fight to use Android.

also, the days of being one of the only 5 focus BM is over :( there goes my uniqueness



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 14:32:41)

quote:

Lord Aegis.... It would seem you are pulling a page from Hun Kingq's book except for all classes...

how to OP classes 101

Can the Joking Balancers please just go somewhere else and let the ones that are serious about this discuss about Balance in peace

And people wonder why Balance Teams listens to minority here NOT majority.. <_< That minority has actually proper ideas as of to how balance a class without overpowering it too much and the majority which apparently isn't listened to are ideas that are one sentence long - such as "BM is OP. NERF!!!11!1!!" or "CHs are UP... DEVS DESTROYED CHs! BUFF!!!!1!!!" - and you expect that to be listened to? You are meant to suggest things here since Devs do rely on majority but if you take it as a joke such as Hun or Aegis' post above, don't complain when you don't get what you want since it was unrealistic in the first place..



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 14:46:26)

I prefer nerfs as opposed to buffs, but this is meant to bring different objects in EpicDuel down to the same, non-overpowered level. If I were to support bringing various non-overpowered objects up to the same level, all items, all actions... they may be technically balanced, although, since each attack on it's own is sustainable, PVP as a whole becomes a means of 30 second assassinations... and that no longer is really tactical or strategic, but along the lines of being a "I spy with my little eye"- click and done. The game will lack depth in user involvement so that is my reasoning for nerfs>buffs.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 18:30:43)

Mother1, You are completely wrong, I only tried to improve the Blood Mage Class without nerfing the other classes. As we all seen nerfing destroys a class look at the options the Blood Mage has to deal with to get any kind of damage now.

You can't adjust EMP just for the Bounty Hunter because it will be adjusted for the Cyber Hunter as well.

I am a Blood Mage and surviving or doing just fine does not help improve that class or undo the damage that the staff has caused because of listening to the minority not the majority, that tells them over and over again nerfing a class is a wrong way to go. They could have came up with three new debuff skills for the three classes or new multi skills but they choose not too, why? I ask the staff but they do not answer. People asked the staff why the nerf to Plasma cannon? They do not answer.

This is the Passive skill that should replace shadow arts for the Cyber Hunters Calogero Bot Reduction skill to help bring balance.

Every player has a right to make balance suggestions to improve their class but can we just the judgement of the staff to implement good changes that brings balance by listening too much to the minority as we have seen affect the game in a negative way.

Maybe to bring balance is to bring the new phase in, scrap the three new classes, create three new classes with new unique skills different from each other and different from the old classes.



Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 18:36:36)

What's this balance you speak of?

I see no balance.

The balance as it is called I see here is all biased. Hun King is biased toward BM. Everyone else is biased against him.

Of course I myself am biased again the people here because of the fiasco last time -- Dep Void's long speeches, and Hun's weird-ish posts. No offense.

And then NW and Titan's balance is biased as well -- they aim for more money. $_$



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 19:11:26)

Hun most of the things you suggest that I have seen would OP BM while would be nerfing the other classes. The bot reduction thing? Guess what not every class and build uses bots to attack. Most use them for their special ability and other then the infernal android and gamma bot's every other special ability is effect based. This would be worthless for the bio borg ability since it buffs the player, as well as the two assault bots since those remove debuffs. The pyro fly and azreal borgs specials aren't meant for damage but effect, and the baby yeti ability isn't meant for damage as well.

Also guess what? Unlike melee which eventually a player will have to use bots don't ever have to be used. Heck people could not use bots on people with this skill and boom just like that the passive is worthless. With Shadow arts it is almost impossible to avoid melee damage because eventually you will run out of energy for skills, and all you items will be on cool down and you will have to strike so Shadow arts has a chance to be useful.

Also hun for the last time BM Where OVERPOWERED! Str BM Where dominating all the classes! It was so that no matter what people were getting the butts handed to them by these str abusing BM's. The staff nerfed them because they were overpowering the masses. it is suppose to be one build is strong against another and weak against others not one build dominates them all, and that was what Str BM were doing so they got nerfed. It is that simple Hun!




The Astral Fury -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 19:30:10)

How about for CH we give it a unique skill to replace SC since it's quite weak and Reroute gives You 30% of damage into energy when attacked every turn as a passive with SC You can only use once every so often and if your blocked then it kinda stinks. How about we Replace SC with Cyber Commander. Like Blood Commander only it gives you a percentage of EP back instead of Hp and will give the normal strength (If think Giving EP and strength is OP then maybe we can lower the strength given). And if that dosen't work we need to give it something to make it on par with BH which has Blood Lust and can not only do more damage with smoke screen, but can make you block more and make him block less face it BH is more effective than CH so maybe we should give it reroute to surrport it.


Ya but I would give it Reroute.



MrBones -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 21:33:15)

Wiht the rage steal special for the new armor, support builts got another nerf..



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 21:39:46)

So the merc class gets there special's ability copied into an armor....[>:]



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 21:50:42)

Mrbones you might as well say that adrenaline got a nerf as well since it increases rage gain. It is like Surgicial strike with the differences that it removes only half of what the original surgical strike does, and gives it to the player.



Super Fat Man -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XI (9/26/2012 22:22:27)

I have a idea how about we [:)] the problem, wear a [:D] on our faces, and eat[sm=zorb_smilie.gif]for dinner?
I am such a genius....



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