RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (Full Version)

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Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 11:06:37)

@gk365
Both are planned. I spoke with Rabble sometime back about the Varium gap and they will be reduced either way to be more reasonable and affordable for everyone. In regards to scaled rewards - both Exp and Credits - it was mentioned before by a Staff member but we were told that Titan and Rabble must both work on it.



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 11:08:56)

Good to know. I can't wait till it is implimented.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 11:25:09)

gk365 did you even read my latest post? I was talking about them needing to reduce enhancements for credits since they are way too expensive. As I stated in my last post this is why some build get nerfed while others stay OP because it is the only way F2P can compete.

If everyone could afford enhancements then OP builds that are killing both F2P and P2P would get dealt with instead of staying OP because players can't afford enhancements and need the OP build to compete.

As for the latest post I read I hope they do this soon so I can get a better challenge against F2P players as well as them nerfing what needs to be nerfed instead of nerfing what is affecting just one group because it is crazy that the inbalance between the classes is just as messed up as the cost for enhancements between varium and non varium.



Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 15:12:10)

Tried caster with 41+26 supp instead of str and is Doing good and my stuff is $#%*.
I will try it with 41 str as req but with another person/player.



JariTheMighty -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 15:16:12)

It would be better to increase the credit gains from battles than to reduce the credit prices because the increased rewards would promote battling more.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 15:54:25)

@ Jarithemighty Unless they are going to increase credit gains to match the sky rocket prices of credit enhancements then I don't think so. Even if non variums can get the best gear easily if they can't enhance it they are at a major disadvantage against varium players who are fully enhanced.



Eventus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 16:22:25)

quote:

@Eventus
No, you are correct, but I meant something else.

Let's say you attack someone with two consecutive strikes. First deals 20 damage, the second is blocked. In both cases you will get the same amount of Rage increase.

This is not oK in my opinion, because, since deflection chance was moved to tech, one could tank dex and tech and have high block and deflect chances. So basically most of the attacker's hits might get blocked or deflected, but in compensation I think he should get more Rage increase in case of being blocked/deflected than in case of dealing normal damage (no block or deflect).

So definitely I'm not speaking of a bug, but about the fact that Rage would need an adjustment, because tanks now benefit from deflects too, since they were moved away from support, so in compensation the attacker should get faster Rage increase when getting blocked or deflected.

I think this is exactly what I was describing actually, err, here's a slightly simplified version --

When you are blocked or deflected, you will have a larger Rage increase. More rage for a block than a deflect, however, because a deflection reduces your damage by 50% while a block reduces it by 100%. Your rage meter will increase more if your opponent blocks your attack, and it will increase slightly more than the norm if your opponent deflects your ranged attack.

So using your example:
If you attacked someone with a base damage of, say, 50 and dealt 20 damage, then your rage meter will increase by (30 points).
Then you attacked the opponent again but got blocked. Your rage meter will then increase by a complete (50 points), compensating you for that block.

You do not get the same amount of rage in both instances. And again, note that Adrenaline, the amount of damage your opponent deals on you, and your Support also influences this (the numbers I provided are only a general idea). You'd also have to take into account rage-affecting abilities, such as Surgical Strike and Uppercut.

I hope this clears things up.



Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 16:49:14)

Few things to take care of strength builds.

Fix dex, tech, and support

Fix plasma cannon so it ignores the effect of malfunction since the blood mage can't have any thing to improve tech.

Undo what they did with the multis and bring multi shot and plasma rain up to par with Artillery strike since Artillery strike has a better chance of critical damage due to it being a support improving skill.

These things not only will tamper out strength builds but bring some sense of balance in the game.



JariTheMighty -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 16:52:49)

Yeah just fix the game that's the solution.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 17:11:47)

quote:

Undo what they did with the multis and bring multi shot and plasma rain up to par with Artillery strike since Artillery strike has a better chance of critical damage due to it being a support improving skill.

Now that you've grasped how Support works, time for Tech and Dex: they give you Res/Def as well as Deflections/Blocking and improve other skills at a fixed rate for Def/Res and probability-based for Deflects and Blocks. Support gives you damage and probability-based effect in form of Criticals.

Give BMs mix of Reroute and BL, give them passive Armor and nerf Mercenaries. That's perfect for ED since it'll bring back fair fights for us, UPed BMs. Also mix of E-Shield and D-Matrix in one would be great! :)



Renzan -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 19:19:54)

quote:

Fix plasma cannon so it ignores the effect of malfunction since the blood mage can't have any thing to improve tech.


No...



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 19:26:00)

@kingofn00bs
It's like saying: "I want Smoke to not be applied to my Multi since I don't have anything to improve my Dex." Faulty logic, makes no sense and we all know this will never happen. Same with my suggestion in post above for a "buff" to "UPed" BMs. :3



toa187 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 20:15:02)

why is it that all other classes have more powerful skills than the mercenary
take the bounty hunter he has cheap shot witch has a 34% defense ignored when skill is maxd he has smoke screen when maxd takes 36 dex points away he has blood lust witch add a % of damage to his health and then there is massacre that dose 140% more damage not to mention the rest of the skills venom strike. shadow arts . multi shot . stun grenade . emp all very good skills
then there is the mage classes witch like the hunter classes have loads of power skills and then we have the mercenary very humble but have no chance against mage and hunter class so in saying that i think mercenary needs some new power moves to put them up in the same class as the others so please take a look into it and see if use can improve the mercs skill tree as merc is a worthy class just got left out :(



ScarletReaper -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 20:53:08)

^Um mercs do just fine against mages and bh's. They DO have strong skills. Ever seen a tech abuse merc with max bunkerbuster and surgical strike? They can be QUITE deadly. Not to mention their strength capabilities and hybrid armor. Max blood commander, max hybrid, level 5 double strike and berzerker. Pretty strong also. Plus intimidate is an often overlooked, but very usefull skill. Helps out a LOT against strength bm and bh's. [;)]



Mr. Black OP -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 22:24:50)

quote:

venom strike. shadow arts . multi shot . stun grenade . emp

Not practical, luck based, only good with dexterity, very weak in damage, and equal to atom smasher.



Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/4/2012 23:06:28)

Here is a minuscule suggestion for poison skills: poison removes health equal to a percentage of the maximum health per turn for 3 turns.

Why? Consider a 42 health player being hit by a level 10 Poison Grenade vs a 140 health player being hit by a level 10 Poison Grenade.



Bunshichi -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 0:11:21)

quote:

equal to atom smasher.


In a way but disagree with that. Its unblockable and scales with tech.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 1:32:24)

this is ridiculous, i lost a fight 3 hits from a strength bloodmage and he not only bloked me but deflected me when i malfed him. strength builds seriously needs nerfing and especially deadly aim and massacre. and nerfing massacre will nerf only strength hunter builds because focus hunters rarely use it. and i think deadly aim should get replaced with a new skill for bloodmages they are powerful when stacked with strenghth and bloodlust and even powerful when used with 5 focus builds.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 1:44:50)

^
So I go bounty hunter, after being told it is "balanced" and nothing needs to be changed
Just to then be told, that it is OP, starting now
Sigh



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 1:47:39)

That is the luck factor playing for you with the block and deflection. As for nerfing massacre no. It can be stopped with a simple energy draining skill and also don't forget if you nerf that skill you will be nerfing both Bounty and cyber hunters since both classes use this skill.

Also as I said before what would you suggest replacing deadly aim with? None of the current passives would be a good fit, and the last one that was mentioned to answer this question I think was an attempt to try and get the class nerfed closer into the ground.



kittycat -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 1:51:13)

Mother1: it can be stopped with an energy draining skill, but BMs cannot drain energy. which causes turmoil. I used Assimilation on a BH and he used an energy booster. Since Massacre stacks with BL, it isn't fair. Making it not stack with BL or reduce scaling by 33% should do.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 2:35:34)

@mother1 u think using a emp or atom smasher would stop them using massacre? all strength hunters has got a energy booster and most people could only drain 38 points max and they got loads of energy points for a second smoke after massacre so how do u think that will workout?
and nerf deadly ain by a few % could work so make it that they get less damage output, and they should get replaced with a chance passive since cyber hunter has got it (shadow arts) so they will have a chance passive that will deal extra % damage with each strike or only gun and aux. this will improve the class and lessen strength builds on bloodmage. and yeah make the hunters gain less % health regain after they reach past 16-20 primary damage or they get no health regain from massacre.

@mother1 obviously u havnt tried using differend builds for cyber hunter. cyber hunter with strength build is a no no since they get no health regain and not much energy regain so they are basically useless without or with massacre and bounty hunters wont even get affected if they are not using a strength/strength abuse build, try to find a non strength hunter that use massacre out there then i will agree with u.



Drianx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 2:54:20)

quote:

If you attacked someone with a base damage of, say, 50 and dealt 20 damage, then your rage meter will increase by (30 points).
Then you attacked the opponent again but got blocked. Your rage meter will then increase by a complete (50 points), compensating you for that block.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work this way. I will test later and then post the conclusion.

EDIT: tested, results in this thread.



Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 3:51:20)

@TRizZzCENTRINO
quote:

No "luck" complaints - This thread is not a place to complain about an unlucky streak that caused you to lose a match. Please remember that while luck may seem to favor or disfavor you in the short run, over the long run it does average out.

It doesn't matter they have lower Dex or Tech. Only difference is that they have much SMALLER chance to Block or Deflect than you. It's NOT 0% for them and it's not 100% for YOU when you Smoke/Malf them.

Hilarious solutions too. Focus 5 is OP apparently and Mass isn't issue so let's cripple whole class when problem is the build. Str BMs are a problem due to lucky streak and removing DA will kill all BMs when problem is one build. Is it THAT hard to think of a solution how to cripple ONE build without affecting others? Nerf the Str progression that Focus 5 BHs and Str BMs take advantage of and it'll kill all Str abuse at once. But no, let's nerf the whole class and then blame other classes to be OP and just leave the stats out because they are fine..

PS. Str BHs can be stopped if they have Mass. If not Atom or EMP (so what if they have Boosters? So can you..?) or even Assimilate that helps me yet it's weaker and blockable, use Defence Matrix or Reflex to stop them. If there's no way out due to, say 1st turn advantage, take advantage of your Stun skill even at Lvl 1 which I tend to do when it's 100% chance to lose next turn unless I stun and attack next turn.



Mother1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion XII (10/5/2012 3:52:01)

TrizZzcentrino you say an EMP build doesn't stop them? While it won't always stop them depending on the build most Str BH use near exact energy or exact energy. A Emp that does over 25 energy drain (Which is every easy for a CH) will cost them a turn which is all that is needed to make smoke wear off which weakens the effect of massacre. You also have malf which weakens smoke, and defensive matrix which you can use to decrease the damage even more. These are all moves a defensive Cyber hunter can use plus remember str BH majority of the time barely invest in dex and tech so use your malf to your advantage

I have fought these bounty hunters before not only as the class I am now but as a CH as well and it does work. Even if they do booster it costs them a turn which not only gives you time for another move, but also make them lose the damage the extra damage they would get if they smoked you as well as lose a turn of attack or two depending on how strong your EMP is.

Also nerf Deadly aim? This not only works with Blood mage but Tech mage as well. TM aren't OP with Deadly aim in the least. By doing this nerf you will be pushing more players to go into the OP caster build which while it needs a nerf in the plasma bolt isn't getting it since F2P TM need this OP build to be able to compete. Remember shared skills between classes will always be tied together whenever they receive a buff or nerf, and from the posts I have been reading I just think everyone wants the str BM and Str BH nerfed into the ground.

Many solutions have been given to stop/weaken massacre and to protect yourself from these strength builds yet all I seem to hear is nerf the BH's nerf BM just because of one build.

Str BM already took a hit with the fireball nerf and now they are learning to adept to it. Now I am hearing talks of people wanting to nerfing bludgeon since they think it is OP when it is one of the more balanced moves in the game, and the last post for an idea for balance was to replace deadly aim with adrenaline. My guess for this one is that the person thought that since Str BM rage on turn four anyway this passive wouldn't help them while making them weaker in the process as well as every other passive would OP them or make them harder to beat (in the form of the three passive armors.)

I could continue my rant but I will stop here.



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