Massacre (Full Version)

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doomturtle -> Massacre (10/22/2012 6:09:21)

I think massa cre should get a buff and a nerf. Right now it is more powerful than the other ultimate skills. I think it should scale exactly the same as the other skills but give 30% health back(wont stack with blood lust) or give a new ultimate skill that improves with tech like the other ultimate skills



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 7:21:13)

no to the first one since str BH builds would have a field day with getting 30% health back instead of 23% with max blood lust. While it would help CH since they are the only class that doesn't have a health gain ultimate it would OP BH in terms of health gain with this class.

Also a move that improves with tech to replace massacre? Make sure it isn't physical since BH would become OP with is because smoke and the ultimate move would both power up with tech, and Tech BH right now are already devastating with this high powered EMP and smoke. Making the new ultimate energy while it will work with malf for CH won't be as bad since the debuff and the ultimate won't be powered by the same skill unlike if it was physical since you want it powered by tech.



RageSoul -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 8:07:44)

@Mother1
Tech Mage has Malf yet it also has SC , so i don't see anything wrong other than Enhancements .

ON TOPIC :
Anyway , about CH , they should have their Massacre replaced with that new skill instead of BH also getting that changed . Just a new STR Skill system would do the trick .



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 8:19:55)

@ Lord aegis

Malf while it works with supercharge wouldn't work at the level a tech based physical ultimate would work with a BH in other words both the debuff and the ultimate powering up with the same stat would be extremely OP if the ultimate is physical.

I mean think about it an ultimate that powers up with tech for BH that is physical when they have smoke which also powers up with tech. it would go together to well even more then malf and supercharge since malf doesn't work with tech like supercharge does. Now here is an example.

A high tech BH uses smoke and takes away 45+ dex because they have high tech. Then when the fourth turn comes they use the physical ultimate that is also powered by tech. The person with low defensive would take more damage then normal thanks to the high level smoke, and the ultimate will hurt even more because the player has high tech.

People would complain about this, and then BH after not getting a nerf or buff in a long time would finally get a nerf and all because of a new ultimate move that works too well with the debuff? While people complain that massacre is OP since it works with strength and smoke makes it more powerful, at least you Massacre and smoke aren't powered by the same stat like this would be meaning as I stated before the debuff and the ultimate will be supercharged by tech spammers and it wouldn't be pretty. See where I am getting at now?



RageSoul -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 8:33:31)

quote:

A high tech BH uses smoke and takes away 45+ dex because they have high tech. Then when the fourth turn comes they use the physical ultimate that is also powered by tech. The person with low defensive would take more damage then normal thanks to the high level smoke, and the ultimate will hurt even more because the player has high tech.

Well , i could say the same thing with Caster TM , except that it's heavily Spamming-reliant .

quote:

People would complain about this, and then BH after not getting a nerf or buff in a long time would finally get a nerf and all because of a new ultimate move that works too well with the debuff? While people complain that massacre is OP since it works with strength and smoke makes it more powerful, at least you Massacre and smoke aren't powered by the same stat like this would be meaning as I stated before the debuff and the ultimate will be supercharged by tech spammers and it wouldn't be pretty. See where I am getting at now?

If so , then that just means it was forced to go to TECH instead of STR . And besides , i prefer CH having an ultimate like that , but only either Energy or Physical , or better yet , based on the Primary's Damage type .



ND Mallet -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 8:36:41)

@lord Unless Malf also improves with tech then you can't compare it to the hypothetical situation of BHs getting a physical tech move.

The only thing that needs done about Massacre is caused by the strength stat.



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 8:40:32)

@ Lord aegis

Off topic Plasma bolt right now needs a slight nerf and the high level varium casters who abuse it don't even use malf so it is pure tech there unlike with this new tech based ultimate which would be even more powerful then Massacre and smoke since they are powered by the same stat. Plus there hasn't been a single debuff and ultimate that would sync as well as this one and that is because we both know it would be OP.

If it was just given to CH I wouldn't have a problem with that. but the OP was talking about an ultimate that works with both class working with tech, and if the ultimate is physical or can be physical for both class (like it is now) it would OP BH since the debuff would work with the ultimate too well. It would be like giving smoke to a merc while they have Bunker blaster without the bonus bunker gives.



RageSoul -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 8:58:20)

quote:

Unless Malf also improves with tech then you can't compare it to the hypothetical situation of BHs getting a physical tech move.

Smokes improved with TECH , am i correct ? So a SUPP Tech Mage can easily counter that since DM and Malf are improved with SUPP , which no other class skill - debuff can weaken .

@Mother1
Yeah , that's what i meant , CH should be getting that not BH .



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 9:05:02)

@ lord aegis

Then that would be leaving the other four classes who don't have malf at the mercy of this combo. How would that be fair for the rest of the classes especially merc and tech merc who don't have defensive buffs or malf to counter this?



Hyperion211 -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 9:33:07)

For Now i think Massacre is the most powerful. But i think if u use bounty hunter +mass + 10 Blood lust is very powerfull and that makes bounty hunters such fierce



King Helios -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 9:36:18)

STR Bounties aren't as powerful as you'd think.

I use a 5 Focus build for Jugg, and it rocks. Massacre? Say hello to -37 EMP.



laguna blade -> RE: Massacre (10/22/2012 18:27:11)

Massace main weakness is emp that is the only way coz mass deal massive dmg although no smoke or malf. Atom smasher hard to hit them coz their shadow art.



RageSoul -> RE: Massacre (10/23/2012 8:41:02)

quote:

Then that would be leaving the other four classes who don't have malf at the mercy of this combo. How would that be fair for the rest of the classes especially merc and tech merc who don't have defensive buffs or malf to counter this?

Yeah i know Merc's gonna be carnaged , but isn't that because it couldn't be in par with other classes? And BTW , that's also the reason why Rusted and the original Assault Bot exists , but the nerfs on both of those bots seem not necessary as it was also a nerf to Mercs too , like nerfing their old HA only because of some "i-thoughts" .



ND Mallet -> RE: Massacre (10/23/2012 8:44:41)

Massacre gets so much damage because it has no secondary effect like defense ignore or rage drain. I think the problem is that it syncs too well with the Str stat right now and the fact that it improves with your weapon as well as strength. We could just buff up the other two Ultimates by adding weapon damage as part of their damage using something similar to Massacre(% of resistance and primary weapon=damage)



Scyze -> RE: Massacre (10/23/2012 14:34:39)

Massacre is the Hunters' main skill. Like the 3 different classes (Mage, Hunter & Mercenary) they each have a main skill which does a great amount of damage. It is not Over-Powered because it does drain a lot of Energy.




Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: Massacre (10/23/2012 18:42:07)

It may use much energy, but if i could make a build that has 100 health and 140 energy, then use all my energy to do damage with it, and transfer energy to damage, I would do it
140 damage attack? wonderful

Just 'cause it costs a lot does not make it balanced
not to mention, it can do up to around double the damage of it's energy cost, which would make my theoretical attack do 280 damage as opposed to 140

expensive doesn't equal balanced



doomturtle -> RE: Massacre (10/23/2012 19:29:25)

@mother1 I know that if there was a tech ultimate skill for bounties it wouldn't be physical. I thought of that. I think all the ultimate skills should be different like super charge should improve with dex again and bring back multi to tech on mages. Make massacre weaker but give it something else so it's not underpowered. Most people only use surgical strike for the rage steal but it is powerful at about level 5 so it shouldn't change



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/23/2012 22:38:59)

@ Doomturtle

You never said that in the original post so that was why I was against that. It would be like giving smokescreen to a merc.

Also if you put multi back to tech with the way things are now casters will be even more OP since plasma rain like plasma bolt doesn't have a stat requirement and it improves the every 3 tech (if it were switched back) It would be Plasma bolt, plasma rain, (Insert move here) Plasma bolt, Plasma rain etc. It would be a nightmare and it would be even harder for me to stand up to a caster TM. I can barely beat them with my build now when I am playing smart.

Also As I stated before Massacre yes it is powerful, but look at what it works with. Strength the most OP stat in the game. Anyone who spams strength and high health can get a good win ratio without thinking even against tank builds. If you weaken massacre then it will still be strong since Str is OP nerf strength itself and the massacre power will go way down since strength is what powers it.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Massacre (10/24/2012 5:20:13)

@mother1


I kind of like the way that it gives 30% back in HP. HOWEVER, I recommend scaling it down to a reasonable 25%, or just have it scale by massacre level.

Example:

Level 1: 50% (15% damage to health)
Level 2: 62% (17% damage to health)
Level 3: 74% (19% damage to health)
Level 4: 86% (21% damage to health)
Level 5: 96% (23% damage to health)
Level 6: 106% (25% damage to health)
Level 7: 116% (27% damage to health)
Level 8: 124% (28% damage to health)
Level 9: 132% (29% damage to health)
Level 10: 140% (30% damage to health)


And really, an extra 7% of Bloodlust on one hit isn't generally OP. Maxing massacre costs 60EP, has a hefty requirement, and is EASILY blockable through EP drain.

Say aa BH manages 60 damage with a maxed massacre. That is a 30% damage to health, which is an 18 health gain. Here is the heal scaling if dealing a 60 damage with this massacre:

9HP
11HP
12HP
13HP
14HP (what happens now with a maxed BL bounty)
15HP
17HP
17HP
18HP
18HP

^
^
DOES NOT STACK WITH BL



robo90925 -> RE: Massacre (10/24/2012 19:13:57)

I think massacre's max dmg should be 90%, or massacre can be blocked.



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/24/2012 19:36:32)

@ Robo90925

Massacre was blockable back in beta. However players complained that it wasn't fair that they had to spend so much energy only for the chance of it being blocked so they made it unblockable.

Also the only reason it is so powerful is

1 Str is OP right now.
2 unlike the other ultimates Massacre doesn't have two other effects so to compensate they made it somewhat stronger though.

What needs a nerf as I said many times is str. Nerf that to a more reasonable level and the rest of these strength attacks and skills will follow. then if the move is still too powerful then that is when it should get nerfed.



doomturtle -> RE: Massacre (10/25/2012 4:38:21)

I don't see why str isn't set to +4 stats for every +1 damage they are ruling delta v. Because every other build has weaknesses like caster tech mage is weakend by people with lots of physical attacks and a high malf. 5 focus BM are weak to azreals Borg. Tank Tlm weak to debuffs. I totally agree with mother1 str needs a nerf



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