Massacre (Full Version)

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ReinXI -> Massacre (10/27/2012 8:55:10)

Alright... Everybody knows massacre is one of the most irritating skills due to str abuse! but I had an idea for it..

what if they made it do mainly this..

energy kept the same stat kept the same effect ~ No HP regain on hit ( cancels out BL ) as well as taking away 20% of the players rage bar

the reasoning I say put this in effect is it is entirely unfair to even if you survive the str mass odds are the very next turn there gonna nail you
with a rage gun or something which gives you zero chance to really heal up after being destroyed by the mass. plus it stops the bounty from suddenly
regaining a huge amount of hp.

P.S. this is more an after-thought and not really important but set the skills crit modifier to 0.0 so it can't critical hit.



8x -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 9:07:37)

Here is what I poted in your first thread:
I see that you are a tech mage, a simple lvl 1-3 defense matrix can decrease massacres damage down to 20. Or you can just use assimilation in your build to take away energy and prevent massacre.

Just because you don't know how to win against strength bounty hunters doesn't mean that one of their skills should be nerfed.



Crimson Eagle -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 9:12:45)

@x8 said that perfectly! ^^



laguna blade -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 9:17:08)

That over nerf. They only rage after mass if against high def/res. There r few ways to counter them.



ReinXI -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 9:36:36)

@x8 thats funny truly funny your thinking that just because I'm a tech mage that's the only reason I want this hilarious! .. no no no I "do" use defense matrix every time I get smoked.. wanna know what happens? I still get pulverized by mass then during that turn of no matrix they always seem to get a rage off on me either killing me or putting me on the brink of death. I'm sorry but there should be something in effect that stops rage from being used right after an ultimate. It's not hard to see that mass is a little bit on the op side. Yes I know it's because str is broken yada yada same story but this is my suggestion maybe not all of it needs to go .. maybe just one of the two make it to where you can regain health but it drains your rage or vice versa.

try not to decide somebody is biased when you see there class mkay? I have been every class in this game



sky222 -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 10:02:14)

@x8
A massacre usually does around 90 dmg on no def at lvl 35 so a DM won't really help



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 10:03:46)

@reinXI

I am a TM as well. However as the others have said there are ways around this. If you go first Malf to weaken this smoke. If they do go first use defense matrix. Just before the massacre assimalite most have near exact energy to smoke and massacre so draining their energy will stop it. Besides most of the times they already have rage by the time they get ready to use massacre so even if you do stop it the rage will come anyways.



8x -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 10:07:35)

@ReinXI
Actually, I was guessing what kind of build you are using from your equipment. To me it looks like you might have a bit too low support to use defense matrix efficiently against smoke and from your reply I can see that you don't time your defense matrix right. Maybe you could try using rusted assault bot first turn after smoke?

quote:

@x8
A massacre usually does around 90 dmg on no def at lvl 35 so a DM won't really help

I usually do around 65 damage on unprotected smoked opponents and 20-25 less when they use defense matrix. A mage could match that damage with malf and a gun.



Promiscuous -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 11:00:03)

Well, I guess something must be wrong when I have 40 def and people still do 70+ dmg on me with massacre.
Massacre should do fixed damage like Surgical and Super Charge.



laguna blade -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 12:01:38)

Why u said it will not stack with bl while only bh has bl not ch. It will be unfair. Massacre just need reduce its dmg.



Mother1 -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 12:06:26)

I said this before and I will say it again. If you complaint is about strength builds abusing this move then nerf str first then if the move is still OP after a decent nerf then nerf the move. Nerfing the move while str is still OP will hurt non strength builds that use this, and the Str builds will still be OP.



Promiscuous -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 13:38:28)

Since when 80-90str is considered a str abuse ffs? If that "str abuse" is the problem, then why everyone is a BH with 6-10 Massacre, 90 dex and 5-7 SA and not using "str abuse" with any other class?



sky222 -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 15:04:22)

quote:

I usually do around 65 damage on unprotected smoked opponents and 20-25 less when they use defense matrix. A mage could match that damage with malf and a gun.


Well then you must not have a decent (lv5+) mass
Because...
24+(34*1.96)= 90.64 rounded to 91



8x -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 15:16:31)

^Not all strength builds use lvl 5+ massacre and the strength that you used in your calculation.



sky222 -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 15:19:44)

Well the majority I have fought use at least lv 3
And imho you're not a str bounty unless you have around 90 str which is like 21-26 iirc



doomturtle -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 15:41:40)

I see most bh using a level 5-7 mass. And a lot of bounties use azreals Borg so defence matrix becomes a waste. I think massacre or strength in general needs a nerf. The best bounty builds don't even abuse strength like you guys are saying I see them with 45 plus there equipment a stats they put enhancements on tech/dex so the block more and smoke takes away more



ReinXI -> RE: Massacre (10/27/2012 22:43:16)

so far I'm seeing mixed interest.. most people seem to be good for doing something about it yet the ones who disagree are largely bounty hunter players.. huh I wonder if theirs a coincidence! ( just kidding really ) but that is the truth. I'm all for massacre being "strong" but it should you know.. be a massacre not an I win button.. simple as that.



robo90925 -> RE: Massacre (10/28/2012 19:39:25)

I think strength abuse is a big problem. Also note that massacre is never blocked it will always do dmg. Attacks like surcharge will max out as 60-70 with tech abuse, the dmg will never match the strength of massacre. 140% plus strength abuse will equal 21-25 + 35 weapon dmg, is just way to OP, thats over 100 dmg with no defence defence and even with tank defence like 30-35, it will still do over 70 dmg whch is utterly insane. PLus the blood lust skill.
,
I think the dmg should be nerfed to the level of berserker. Massacre can still be unblockable so it will be abit better than bezerker since it can be blocked.

Person under this comment.

All classes can press a skill and do "damage", but Massacre does MORE damage than any class can defend against. From what you said, you make 60 (after damage reduction from the defence of 30-35) damage sound very weak; 60 damage is more than half of someones HP. Again massacre is still overpowered.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Massacre (10/28/2012 19:53:59)

@ above


The usual strength Massacre BH has 20-24+35 damage with level 7 massacre, which is 116%.

What some people do not realize is that Massacre deals damage based on the equipped primary's BASE damage, not the extra strength one has.


Example:

20-24+35

114% of 35 is 39.9

35+39.9 is 74.9, or 75 damage potential.

Added in with the strength, it gains +20-24 damage, making the final damage potential at 95-99 damage


Remember, though, that massacre has NO added benefits. It is just 100% raw, pure damage. You can see this when a Cyber Hunter uses massacre. They just deal damage.



zion -> RE: Massacre (10/29/2012 7:50:06)

Actually, it stacks perfectly with smoke and bloodlust... I would consider that added benefits!
Its a fine finishing move for CH, but for BH it has become OP.



f4tal1tY -> RE: Massacre (10/29/2012 8:52:01)

like raynie day said, 95-99 damage or so.... even as 8x with def of around 50 including normal def, it still does a 40 damage WITH a chance to crit...... this is impossibru to defeat, i have given up hope in fighting op strength BH PLEASE NERF!!!!!



Metallico -> RE: Massacre (10/29/2012 20:24:18)

i agree, they need a nerf specially the oped high energy builds



ReinXI -> RE: Massacre (10/29/2012 20:42:30)

and now! I come back with news! .. well not really but ok I did some 1v1 matrix, lvl 9 assimilate everything that a mage could need to take out a BH ..
want to know what happened? I still got creamed 80-90% of the time

the fact they do 40+ damage easily on a mass ( normally averages 40-60 depending on there smoke for me I suppose? maybe 30-50
the point is after that I'm pretty much forced to heal due to there being no way to kill them even with rage ( blood lust heals a huge amount of hp )
so I heal.. wanna know what happens? they ALWAYS rage next turn therefor doing MORE damage ( also defense matrix has expired so no help there )
and they wind up healing EVEN MORE health. This gives them usually easily the equivalent of a low level heal while doing insane damage in those two turns.
and due to the fact there pulverizing me with damage I'm stuck at 10-20 health maybe 30 if lucky with low energy crippled defenses and a heal on CD. So
I ask you is this truly "fair?" even when I assimilated they blocked 50% of the time and the other 50% they always had 2-3 energy gap from no mass so assimilate
became useless.



Rayman -> RE: Massacre (10/29/2012 21:48:59)

We have to buff Bounty Hunter to fix this.
(BH Need a buff)



Bunshichi -> RE: Massacre (10/29/2012 22:14:45)

I see massacre way to often.



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