RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (Full Version)

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TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/12/2012 17:42:52)

@cool preston: we already have support spammers since beta and you want it to happen again by moving deflection back to support? support is a statl that should not be spammed or overused because its purpose it to add a little something into battle. and by moving deflection to support it will nerf malfunction since smoke can increase ur damage and make you block more. and the Aux DA is a bad idea it can also be abused like the DA techmages and bloodmages have.



friend18 -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/12/2012 17:54:08)

I don't see them being underpowered at all. Mercs with 5 focus and a concentration in tech and maxed out blood commander in 2v2 are quite troublesome. There's always a build that works for every class. If you aren't winning, you aren't doing it right :P I have a 96% win ratio now with my level 25 non-varium merc (with very little NPCing). It will probably dip a little between levels 29-31, but after that I should be in the clear...



cool preston -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/13/2012 9:10:42)

Their not going to put back deflection onpy field medic.

Also how is it a bad idea for Aux DA we couldn't abuse it near as much. first of all becuase it takes 3 turns to cooldown and becuasesupport would still not be a good thing to invest in. Unless you wanted 140 support with aux da then we would have a slght problem.

I'm not saying I dont win alot I do its just mercs need a buff. :P



Metallico -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/13/2012 16:40:33)

@friend18
¿So? merc is the best class for a low lvl player, i lost my number 55 battle at lvl 30 against barneystillpwnsu i remember it :P

And merc used to be better as it original skill tree



Thylek Shran -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 0:10:00)

From my experience mercs at lvl 35 are the weakest class in PVP now while TaM are the strongest because of reroute and heal looping.
Mercs have alot problems:

1. They miss an offensive debuff like smoke or malf while intimidate can get evaded with aux, robot and skills.
2. They miss a regenerative ability like Reroute, Blood Lust, Frenzy, and Static Charge.
3. Their ultimate skill (Surgical Strike) is much weaker than Massacre and Super Charge
4. Passives: Adrenaline is still to weak while all other classes have stronger passive skill combinations.



Mysterion. -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 2:39:11)

@ Above

1. True, but TLM/BM have the same problem
2. True
3. This is totally wrong, Surgical is probably the best:
They steal 50% of your rage bar and at the same time it gives 30% life steal.
As i remember Super charge does not steal rage but only give 30% life steal and ok, they ignore 20% resistance. But 50% rage steal is far worse.
Massacre is strong, but it can give max 23% so called Life steal (Blood lust). But as i remember, blood lust is a seperate skill and is still optional so massacre is technically speaking only max 140% dmg no specials.
4. Hybrid Armor? The Best passive for def of all in my opinion?



RageSoul -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 4:57:54)

Well , i'm back .


@the people who kept on saying "no it's not UPed" , "it doesn't need a buff" , etc .

First of all : *clapping* . I'm quite surprised that you guys can make such an outstanding performance out there . Keep going !

Second : Really ? OPed back then? Or maybe because you guys can't blame the luck and the past condition of the f2p low/high-leveled gear back then just for you not getting pwned so easily by very experienced players or at least , decent ones ( hey i'm not saying all of 'em are , just those people who manage to be a pro on other classes that switched to Merc and experienced and experted it big time / pro players that were Merc from the start ) ? Stun-Zerk > Smoke-Mass ? Oh come on , Maul Stun % =/= 100% and Smoke-Mass combo = almost no miss . Old HA being OPed because "it can switch from P to E and vice verse , then giving a hefty bonus DEF/RES" , while the other skills don't need to be maxed , then gives higher bonuses that HA , don't beat it ? You sure ? If he switches it from P to E , that's not advantage for ya? Huh-uh , right , let's blame Merc for giving a hard time for those players who are too selfish to win .

Third : 5 Focus and Support weren't the only builds great for them back then . Stun-Zerk ( that's Maul successfully stunning an opponent , then use a powerful Berzerker to finish them off) was one of them . Too bad it requires a lot of stats to work , hence Support can beat it , but that depends on strategy though . Also , do not forget , in Artillery , we need a lot of SUPP , the rest doesn't need a lot of SUPP to be very successful .

Fourth : Smoke decreased DEX =/= 100% miss . Surgical deals moderate damage yet 50% Rgae Reduction , which is both goo and bad , because strategically , you're opponent is toast , but bad because it's easy to endure it . Also , since we lack EP gain , don't expect that Maxed Surgical build to work 100% great all the time because heavily relying on it won't exactly give you the expected % win ratio . And did i mention to you that Malf reduces TECH , most of the unblockables are powered by TECH , therefore Malf weakens them Bunker and SS?

Fifth : Why not? Unnecessary nerfs all thanks to people kept on complaing that TLM was super OPed , the the Devs nerf it , but unfortunately , Merc also got affected . Even that 50-50 HA nerf was unnecessary .

My verdict ? It needs a buff .

And that will be all , thank you very much .

EDIT : whoops about the "" part



Ranloth -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 5:40:52)

Actually, Aegis, people wanted HA to be split rather than toggleable. I didn't like it at first but I find it better now since it's +1 above E/P versions (total numbers) and it has good conjuration with P Armor, E Armor and Hybrid (Tech build will get +6 for HA, P Armor and Tech will improve Res & vice versa). Of course toggleable is better in this scenario but it takes a turn to switch and it's your disadvantage if it's at P and enemy uses Energy attacks. So there are benefits to it.

Since I have few suggestions of my own in my thread (which covers all classes), I won't redirect you there but post my ideas here and let you see if you like 'em:
quote:

I'd say Adrenaline needs looking at as well. It's quite useless in 1v1. Perhaps making Adrenaline reduce enemy's rage by whatever it is at your level? So at Lvl 10, it gives you Rage 25% faster and you could make your enemy get it 25% slower too. In 2v2, it could be tougher but you could just split the effect of reducing between the two so 12.5% less each (rounded up to 13%), unless there are 2 Mercs so they'd stack to maximum of 25% each on the enemy.

Apart from that, good idea of buffing Intimidate to make it unique skill for them as well as simply provide them with a needed buff. Say, Intimidate working like it is now but add EP regen to it similar to one of Blood Commander (%-wise) so when enemy is Intimidated then % of their damage will be transfered to Energy. It'd provide nice overall buff and make a skill useful in more battles so Mercenaries could gain advantage and compete better. So it'd be useful to preserve Energy since you could still debuff the enemy and get some/most of EP spent on Intimidate back if you can get good source of damage.

Lastly I'd like to suggest a re-arranged Merc skill tree found here: http://i45.tinypic.com/zairp.png
With this skill tree, you can get to skills you want much easier. Of course, SS needs Berzerker and Bunker before you can get it but you can do Bunker + SS build with high Energy. Atom is now easier to get and so is Adrenaline; not literally easier but it gives you better choice to create other builds instead of old skill tree. I've also taken FC + Multi idea from TLMs as it seems quite good. But main point is - you can make builds quite easier now as you aren't restricted by having useless skills you won't use. SS build need Bunker and Zerker as I said but you don't have to use them, although Bunker can be used as life-saving skill if you even have it at Lvl 1 with Tech build for SS.
There's simply much bettter synergy between the skills and allows you to get better builds without wasting points elsewhere.


I'd say Adrenaline would be much more useful and could stay as a passive since advantage would be decent and so would be the skill. Intimidate would be mini buff and another unique skill for Mercs (BMs would have Intimidate so that's unique one for them too; no class would have it), and re-arranging could work although I don't mind.

PS. The screenshot is old in 3rd paragraph, it was before Blood Commander hence why there's FC instead. Ignore that and think it's BC instead. xD



RageSoul -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 5:46:26)

quote:

Actually, Aegis, people wanted HA to be split rather than toggleable. I didn't like it at first but I find it better now since it's +1 above E/P versions (total numbers) and it has good conjuration with P Armor, E Armor and Hybrid (Tech build will get +6 for HA, P Armor and Tech will improve Res & vice versa). Of course toggleable is better in this scenario but it takes a turn to switch and it's your disadvantage if it's at P and enemy uses Energy attacks. So there are benefits to it.

Um , you can always use P armor even if it wasn't split into 2 . And besides , First Strike can be in your favor .

But anyway , lemme try to see the ideas if i have enough time ( due to me playing OverSoul ATM ) .



Metallico -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 21:27:12)

Well merc needs something better than a aux deadly aim, support builds not really work since artillary was nerfed, artillary has a lot of cooldown turns and they are not tank as before, they have not improved by dex skills so a malf is a curse for a classical focus mercenary, also yes they have intimidate but the only damage that can be done in game is not done by the primaries and guns, i d like technician for mercenaries or maybe something to increase critical chance, bunker buster ´d be a great skill



cool preston -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 22:19:37)

Guys we all know mercs need a buff. Be it deadly aim aux or energy regen intimidate perhaps technician or reflex boost.

Mercs need some counter to smoke or malf. And the aux deadly aim is a good idea to put kercs on the playing field.



D.v.D. -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 22:40:29)

Post #: 61
quote:

Guys we all know mercs need a buff

This thread would be all ideas if everyone agreed.
It seems that you may have played mercenary for too long,
perhaps try another class,come back, and tell us how you did.



cool preston -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/14/2012 22:58:06)

DvD your suggesting I'm a merc I've played it too long so I should switch classes? Just because I made a thread about mercs being underpowered. It is not my fault mercs are underpowered so why do you constantly bring me and my gear into this thread? Gear is not relevant, enhances not releveant... Changing class because you think I lose befause I'm a merc... NOT relevant. We are discussing skills and buffs so dont post if you dont have anything to say.

For 3 pages we have been discussing pros and cons of skills and buffs. Everyone is chipping in saying their two cents. So please stop flaming me, my gear and my ability to win as a merc.

Thank you.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/15/2012 16:25:13)

OMEGA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EXTREMELY UNDERPOWERED!
Lmao. Its very fair and good class.
The reason none using it is all went to char with OP skill trees, but that dont makes them good players.
i`m 33 merc and i`m very good against all classes.
Its not bad class. Its average and its very good if its tank.

Imagine if tank merc vs tank mage. it will be interesting through.
if bounty hunter fight merc or blood mage the fight will end in 5 seconds, so
this topic must be changed tittle into :
Blood mages and bountyhunters are OP?

i agree it needs a buff, but dont make it OP like others.



kittycat -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/16/2012 2:59:02)

Mercenaries have moves that are OP itself in nature. The resistance and defense portion may be somewhat deficient in terms of covering a Smoke Screen or Malf, but with BC + Zerker, the only thing that can stop it fully is blocking, or having high defense/resistance. Bunker Buster is already more powerful than Plasma Cannon, so that's an advantage.

Berzerker needs a backlash effect, which should be increased chance of blocking by (damage increase %/10)%, and feel free to apply that to any blockable attack move.



RageSoul -> RE: Mercenaries Extremely Underpowered? (11/16/2012 6:00:55)

@kittycat
Yes i agree on the BB and PC being strong damage unblockable damage skills , but please bear in mind that they need a lot of TECH just to 4-5 turn somebody plus lots and lots of EP if they plan to do a Caster build . So even +12 / + 6 DEF would cover it , still won't be enough to face the ending point most likely they'll end up : defeat . ( EMP that burns 30+ is already bad and Defense Matrix- Malf combo / Technician-DM-Malf / Smoke - Mass are actually deadlier than you think )

But about the Zerk part .... don't see it much of a threat though .



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