Block Rate Nerf (Full Version)

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Vegafire -> Block Rate Nerf (11/28/2012 23:42:01)

I know i am probably going to get critisised for this but in my oppinion initial block rates should be lowered, either that or Shadow arts removed which would be unfair on CH's, I have seen alot of high healthed BH's with max shadow arts and bloodlust + masacre and Smoke screen, in my oppinion this is overpowered and about 70+ % of epicduel now consists of BH's because any damage done against them is replenished with Bloodlust and with shadowarts any strikes are litterally useless unless your lucky enough to make contact. i have seen players walked out of a battle unharmed due to this.

If they smoke the bloodlust has a higher effect and even with low dex they seem to block often.
They stay at high enough HP's to not worry about having to heal
if they are str/ health abusers it just completely throws it off balance
and all of this mixed with masacre is just deadly

I have seen players with 13-17 + 35 phy's do over 80 damage non critical on myself and even smoke screened my defences are normally 15-19 + in total. completely ridiculous in my oppinion



Mother1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/28/2012 23:47:15)

Ok you want the block rate lower because of one class that blocks more then others? Sorry but not supported. Why should the block rate be lowered for all when it seems your complaint is about one class that is using a passive to get blocks. It sound completely unfair and a lower block rate only helps those high damage physical classes who thrive on damage output.

Plus even if you lowered the block rate due to BH (the class you said blocks too much) having shadow arts even if you lower the block rate they will stil block more then other due to Shadow arts. This won't solve anything, and will only make high melee damage builds more likely to connect with their attacks.



Vegafire -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/28/2012 23:58:21)

Actually any primary weapon and physical robot attacks get blocked, and yes because once class is blocking way to much it is unfair as its OP that class type and it will lower the block rate for all class's not just BH's and CH's, you are obviosly one of the two, it just means battles arent as long and its more down to skill than luck as the game is intended to be, making it nearly impossible to hit a class is just unfair in my oppinion.

And its not the fact that you's have shadow arts its the combination of abilities put together is overpowered as about 90% of players including BH's would agree , Smoke Screen, Shadow Arts, Masacre and Bloodlust is just to overpowered, i dont see any other classes that have 4 skills that work with eachover in such a way so why should BH have it? Just my oppinion but why should Bounty hunters be so powerfull in comparison? so yeah removing shadow arts and replacing it with another passive or lowering the initial block rate (dexterity side) sounds good to me.



Mother1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:11:57)

@ deathshadowslayer

I am a Tech mage not a bounty hunter or cyber hunter. Please don't assume that just because I don't agree with you that I am one of the other classes. But also other then the physical bot which works with tech, every other strike in the game works with strength.

Plus guess what as I said before even if you lower the block rate, Bounty hunter and Cyber hunter will still have a higher block chance due to shadow arts. So in reality this would only make the other classes more vunerable to strength builds and focus builds who use their robots physical attacks.



Vegafire -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:21:47)

But it would also make for some more skillfull gameplay and give players a better chance at beating these overpowered classes, yes they will still have a higher block rate than other classes but they will not be blocking constantly. im not saying this because i have the problem myself anymore because i just intimate and then use ranged attacks untill i can rage with Bludgeon making there defences useless. but it has cost me a large ammount of time and money to get to the standard where i can do this effectively, but what about those players F2P its not fair that there having to get what 300,000 credits from mostly losses due to overpowered BH's just to enhance their gear and buy gear.




TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:29:24)

mother1 is right, if you keep getting blocked my BH and cyber it is really not our problem, it may be because you dex is lower than the cyber hunter or you just clicked steike at the wrong time. what are you going to replace shadow arts with if you want it removed? one useful tip: when you get smoked by a BH always use your unblockable attacks and try to stall the battle until smoke wears off, put shield up if you can or use intimidate or emp.
BH and CH need shadow arts to survive, and dont forget when you get blocked your rage bar increased more than you strike, sometimes i really want my opponent to block or deflect me.
BH class itself is nowhere close to overpowered, just that massacre is too strong. you cant expect to win every battle against them, thats the whole point of the luck factor, it balances the battle and give those that got higher stats than the other a chance of a small boost.



Mother1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:33:21)

More skill game play? As I stated it would only help those brainless strength builds.

Strength builds as well all know are for damage output and Blocks, and deflections are what slow them down. Lowering the block rate would hurt these same f2p players as well since they would have less of a chance to block which only help the strength builds as well as focus builds who use physical bot attacks.

If strength was brought down to a more manage level then I wouldn't mind this, but as it is now I can't support it. F2P need all the block, deflections, and other advantages they can get to even stand a change against these OP builds, and less blocks chances would also hurt f2p players.



Vegafire -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:33:41)

Well for one they are always complaining about Deadly aim so why not give them it? show them that its not OP and its not me personally, they dont need shadow arts to survive being able to lower defences and passively regain HP at mad rates due to low defences does that for them as for CH's they cann ragain energy to heal can they not? expecially when they are doing unsane damge nomrally unless you can intimidate them like myself.

Edit: I am against str abusers myself, i could easily become one as i have proven to many of players but yet again it takes the skill out of the game. its meant to be a strategic turn based game right? well why not make people think? instead of having 90% of all BH's and CH's running about with the same build. it may be a deadly build but its common and well thats just no fun expecially for the other classes, maybe if the ED team made it so that the max points you can have on a stat is 50 + a extra 50 enhanced stats? i mean i could easily do 90 + 60 str but theres no fun or stratagy in that.

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TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:39:20)

oh yes give cyber hunters deadly aim what a great idea, now we are going to be the 2nd op class in the whole game, and everyone will complain about it and want to nerf cybers.



Mother1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:45:35)

Deathshadowslayer

Deadly aim on the hunter classes? That would OP them big time. Strength abuse would be even worse and you would give them a powerful side arm. Plus with smoke and malf all they would need is to use the gun that goes with their debuff, and boom they have a powerful now combo that only TM has right now.

CH have already received a lot of nerfs, and from the data CH are doing good in the game. they don't need to become OP and go back to the nerfing table again.



Vegafire -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:46:49)

But thats just it they are going to complain no matter what is done, its just this way they would have more of a fighting chance, and if cybers got Deadly aim they would need to focus more on str leaving there defences open? its simple really people just need to understand with each perk there is a downside but with Shadow arts as a passive i dont see a downside to it only the aspect that it is overpowered combined with the current block rates + their emp and hybrid armour giving them + 10 res.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (11/29/2012 0:55:43)

uh, i have tried a malf + massacre cyber support build and it wins 90% of the time, i dont even max my shadow arts so it will be a field day for me if shadow arts is replaced by deadly aim, i can deal epic damage with it.



theholyfighter -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/9/2012 5:44:59)

Half-Support.
Smoke+Shadow Arts+MAX Massacre=Too much



goldslayer1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/9/2012 5:53:00)

quote:

oh yes give cyber hunters deadly aim what a great idea, now we are going to be the 2nd op class in the whole game, and everyone will complain about it and want to nerf cybers.

2nd most OP? try 1st most OP by a long shot.

yes blocks are ridiculouse, im a str BH, and i barely block CHs when i smoke them.

in fact most CH with low dex end up blocking me more than i block them when they are smoked.



diablo452 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 19:39:14)

I've been around since beta, and people complaining about BH is nothing new. Another complaint was every merc with artillery strike could 1 hit people.
Here's the thing though. Shadow Arts is one of cyber hunters' (and bounty hunters') best skills. Bloodlust is op sometimes, but why ruin it for any BH who doesn't heavily rely on it
If it's going to be nerfed, have it nerfed if a certain stat is too high, strength. Bloodlust is nerfed by 8% That means at tier 10 they'd only heal 15% instead of the 23%



goldslayer1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 19:43:14)

@diablo
bloodlust isn't OP



there shouldn't be passives that increase luck factors anyway. dont know why they made them.



Remorse -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 19:50:58)

I think shadow arts is in dire need of a change,

Not a buff, not a Nerf, A change.



Currently the skill is to unpredictable sometimes it helps A LOT other times not at all and Im not a fan of this at all



How about change it to a hidden activate-able that ignores a % of the next opponents attack.

How it works is this:
You have you turn and you suspect the opponent will deal high damage the next turn, you click shadow arts it will secretly activate without ending your turn then proceed to continue your turn.

It should ignore say up to 50% (at lvl 10) of the un-defended damage (eg.they hit 20 it will now hit only 10)

It would also have a few warm ups and say 3 cool down.
but no energy cost ( due to the fact it would ruin the secretiveness of the skill)

Or.

Perhaps give it an energy cost but only subtract the energy after the opponent deals their damage.
In which case the warm up and CD could be lower.



diablo452 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:00:29)

I like the idea of ignoring a percentage of the opponents attack, but it should be passive not active. At most 10% damage ignore. Just about anything over that really
isn't worth people complaining about, (not saying they won't anyway) but if it only ignores 10% it saves you about 5 damage (against a 50 damage attack) which is handy in the long-run.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:01:55)

@remorse
ehhh, idk about that, in same cases, it will give the enemy more rage.

but the passive shouldn't be luck, it should be something else.



Remorse -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:12:56)

^ Ignore, Not block.

Therefore ignored damage gives no rage.

@ diablo,

It could be a passive But I feel an activate-able would be more balanced.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:16:02)

quote:

Therefore ignored damage gives no rage.

ignoring damage is damage they didn;t do though, that means it increases their rage.

if the ignore damage total ends up being 15 damage, they get their regular rage + 15% from the ignored damaged.

thus leading to faster rage. this is the same reason why crits offer less rage, because u did more damage.



Remorse -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:20:44)

^
What I mean is, the total damage they deal is reduced before factoring rage, then rage is determined after the damage is reduced.



Mother1 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:29:07)

@ remorse

I have a few questions about this.

Say if the person were to use this, but the opponent didn't attack. Would the effect stay until the person attacked or will it go away after your opponent's turn?

Would this still work if your opponent used a rage attack?

I won't say my thoughts about this until I get these answers.



diablo452 -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:38:19)

@remorse: it's honestly better to have it as a passive ability like mother1 said what if they don't attack? You loose that skill and have to wait for it to recharge.
Passive abilities are better for balance because it's permanent. You could have it so it blocks 10% on the next attack with a 1 turn recharge, but you'd be stuck
with that for a long time.



Remorse -> RE: Block Rate Nerf (12/15/2012 20:48:37)

@ Mother,
If they dont attack, then it stays active until they do. However the cool down is extended to how many times it takes for them to attack.


As for rage.
It does not effect the rage attack at all however it stays activated for the next non rage attack.



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