New OOP build= Support Mercs (Full Version)

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Mysterion. -> New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:12:34)

With Omega i think the Support mercs will be unstoppable.
Imagine this:
Primary with Massive strike
Sidearm with azreals curse
Auxilery with spreadfire.

This would break the whole 2vs2 system, and in 1vs1 it will also get worse.

How is this more balance in the game, this new ability transfer will break the whole current balance we have.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:17:59)

with field medic not in support, support isn't going anywhere atop the food chain.

in the mean time, we dont know all the restrictions, so lets just wait for omega to come out, then judge it.

needless to say however, i already have a couple of builds concepts.



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:21:53)

They will crit hit all over everyone, and with massive you die in 2 hits.

They dont need a field medic, this will be the new quick kill build.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:27:50)

@mysterion
isn't massive strike being limited to strikes only?



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:29:58)

^ Nope, everything



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:33:01)

@mysterion
then u should worry about more than support builds.


so ur saying massacre will ignore 65% defense?



Orian -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:35:32)

What if the passive abilites could only be applied to other weapons if you had the original weapons that came along with them



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:38:44)

@ Goldslayer1

It already does when you have infernal, never noticed?

@ Orian
The weps doesnt matter anymore, i can have basic club with massive strike, and blunderbluss with azreals curse.
You dont need the originals weps anymore



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:46:01)

@mysterion
according to the wiki, crits ignore 50% defense, massive strike increases it to 65%.
i dont see much issue in this. its only an extra 15% defense ignore.

calculate 15% of ur defense.



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:51:18)

@ Goldslayer
Yeah, but how much do you actually crit in a match, and how much does a support merc do?
They probably got a crit chance of like 30 to 40%. And when they crit they deal 165% dmg.

If you go to 2vs2, and they can also do double dmg with there aux, the opponents are just lost.
And when you got 2 support mercs against you, you never stand a chance.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 3:58:06)

@mysterion
u got the math wrong.
the max crit chance is 13%
and thats based on UR support.

according to the wiki, the base crit chance is 4%

going by this, the only way ur opponent has 13% crit chance, is if he has 63 more support than u.

if the match is 8 rounds long, and he has 63 more support than u, then he will average 1 crit.

secondly, its not 165% damage.


its 100% damage, (85% for spreadfire)
the defense ignores is just like having lower defense.
if ur defense total is 30 defense, then the 65% defense ignore brings ur defense down to 20, and then it does the damage.
so it would be like, the aux hitting 20 defense and not 30.


if it were 165%, the damage would be much higher.
ill use eggzoka as an example.

if it were 165% damage, a support build with 123 support, has a 64+ damage potential (this is vs zero defense)
thats 44 damage vs 30 defense
if it were really 165%, that damage jumps to 106+.

that would be 76 damage vs 30 defense.




Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:08:22)

Goldslayer

13% + 5% of azreals curse.
So 18%, thats the same as 20%.
So ok, I got that wrong.

But when the merc does Artillery strike, and it crits it is 165%.
But with the aux, it is not. but still auxes deal 39+ normally like 25. So 64 dmg.
Divided by 85% is still 55 (54,4) dmg.

Basic def in 2vs2 is 30.
Would hit 25 each.

And thats only the aux from 1 merc.
If you have too mercs against you its lready 50dmg on both opponents.
Without any crits

And then the next turn Artillery strike.
Normal dmg is 70 for support merc.
Min the basic def 30 is 40 dmg.

So the mercs can reach a total of 130dmg in only 2 turns.
Without crits

How is this balanced?



Ranloth -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:08:57)

Tell me.. Have you even SEEN all the info about Omega? They aren't that stupid to allow such thing to happen. Aux with Spreadfire.. Right. So you looked at the screenshot in DNs. Funnily enough it was for the Gun, why would Aux have it? Or test screenshot maybe? Did you think abilities may be restricted per equipment type as well?
To add, Rabble is changing the FORMULAE of the game, small bit was shared on Twitter. It will NOT be all calculated as easily as it's in the Wiki, it's a MAJOR overhaul of the WHOLE game.

@goldslayer1
Don't even bother with numbers. Thread is all assumption and data out of thin air, there is NO real proof this will happen nor he knows how it'll all look like.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:12:10)

@mysterion
azrael curse only applies to strikes.

and again, ur throwing around numbers like 165%+ damage, when in fact that % would nearly double the damage it does, when in fact it wont.

defense ignores and damage increase are 2 different things.
with defense ignores, its only adding about 10 damage, with a damage increase its adding 40+ damage. its completely different.

i suggest u read up on how defense ignore and how criticals works.

also, multis now deal 85% damage, so thats less than before.

again, its 100% damage, and 65% defense ignore.
not 165% damage.



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:14:32)

@ Trans

quote:

We will say now that the new system will allow for much greater customization than before, and will involve equipping passive effects and active abilities to your weapons.


And since Exoskeleton is a AUX and ARMOR special ability and can be equipped to Mecha Staff, it is possible.
Azreals curse can easily be equiped to guns, then will spreadfire also be allowed on auxes.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:15:34)

quote:


Mark of Azrael
Adds a 5% bonus Critical Strike to each strike
Increases the chance to crit by 5%. Essentially, increases max chance to crit up to 25%. Only available on a "Strike" attack (normal attack).
Currently available on: Azrael's Bane, Azrael's Curse.


on a strike.
and last i checked, guns cant strike.



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:18:22)

Goldslayer

Ok i got that wrong, but if they crit its still deadly.

They can still deal 130 dmg on both opponents in 2 turns without crits.
That is still garanteed win.



Ranloth -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:25:15)

quote:

And since Exoskeleton is a AUX and ARMOR special ability and can be equipped to Mecha Staff, it is possible.
Azreals curse can easily be equiped to guns, then will spreadfire also be allowed on auxes.

Pics or it didn't happen. DNs don't reflect the FULL change, they show us how it'll look like. Unless you confirm it'll be like that, this isn't even a balance issue since you have no idea what post-Omega ED will be like in terms of equipment and formulae.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:25:52)

@mysterion
im gonna try and explain it again.

i have 123 support with E bunnyzooka. thats 64 damage minimum
u have 30 resistance.

my aux damage would be 34

on a crit, its 65% defense ignore, ur defense is dropped 11. (did it wrong earlier)
meaning my aux would deal 53 damage on crits.

if it was 165% damage like u said it was, 64 X 1.65 = 106

my minimum damage would be 106, basically, i would deal 76 damage to ur 30 resistance.
its a huge difference from damage increase and defense ignore.

thats why saying its 165% damage increase is wrong.
when u see defense ignore %, its relating to defense ignoring, not damage increase.



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:33:50)

Well, didnt you ever hit 76 then?

Because i did, even without massive strike or a crit or a support build.
It is possible to hit that with massive strike.

But since its only a 13% chance to hit that, it wont happen much, and then you still need to have a opponent with little def/res.

Dont say its impossible, because i hit 76s even without crits so.



goldslayer1 -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 4:35:49)

quote:

Well, didnt you ever hit 76 then?

yeah, with 135 support techmage with a huge malf.

but u wont have 13% every game though.



Stabilis -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 7:58:29)

I did not read any of the post. Spreadfire only works on Dage's SIDEARMS.



Mysterion. -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 8:04:17)

@ Depressed Void

This is what Titan posted in the DN:
quote:

We will say now that the new system will allow for much greater customization than before, and will involve equipping passive effects and active abilities to your weapons.


So it can be possible to put special abilities to other weapons.
So it can also (probably) be possible to put Spreadfire on Auxes



Mecha Mario -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 9:59:15)

quote:

Quote: Nightwraith

Nowhere in the design notes does it say anything about what we will or won't do with regards to existing enhancements. As soon as we've finalized our plan, we will post it and let your feedback direct any changes. That said, it's very unlikely we would issue refunds for enhancements on weapons that have already been sold.

As for the equippable skills -- some skills and weapons will be permanently linked. This will allow certain rares and ultra rares to maintain their identities.
Found here. May want to read the bold part in the quote. If your referring to this picture here, its still in the testing phase. It means things can still change, and not final. It was a small preview of whats coming in Omega.

Hope this helps!



Stabilis -> RE: New OOP build= Support Mercs (12/7/2012 11:30:57)

@Mysterion,

Mecha's quote, and also that Spreadfire has a unique animation, an animation for all potential Spreadfire items would need an animation to match the weapon. That is quite a bit of lag and specialization for 1 ability.



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