Simple mages... (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Artix Entertainment Games] >> [EpicDuel] >> EpicDuel Balance



Message

yellaboyung -> Simple mages... (12/9/2012 15:54:20)

Recently, I've returned to Epicduel after an 8 month retirement. What I've noticed was that...

The most OP class is a mage...

I know many people might disagree with me on this because mages are kinda rare and they seem pretty balanced until I fought this one guy (I wont give out his name).

If you're a mage, your in luck. High health with high energy and using your enhancements on tech and dex will save your life in many battles. Because it's overpowered.
These mages can kind of tank a bit, with high health, and can hit you just as hard as a bounty hunter would with massacre. Plasma Bolt, Overload, Deadly Aim, and Super Charge can make these mages hit with serious force every round, and still take little damage.

I've even seen a mage like this, with Plasma, Overload, Deadly Aim, Super Charge, and even Technician and Defense Matrix so now they can tank extremely well while making their plasma bolt hit you way harder than a regular mage.

But then, where does agility play in? If a mage has high health, shouldn't agility make us hit them harder?..... NO!
140 health is all they need and their defense is only down by -2. They laugh at that. -2 does nothing to them. And if you try to make a build to tank them, ur already messed up because these mages use malfunction.

So I think Agility needs to be slightly higher so that 139 hp is -4 defenses. 125hp -2. and 109 -1 with 95hp at 0.

Sooo...Sorry I kinda dragged this little story on, but i'm serious about it. If you're a mage, I want you to make a build like this. N if you don't know how, I'll gladly help you so you can get tons of easy wins and point out the fact that this is STILL overpowered (just not used as much as it was in the past).



Mother1 -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 16:01:18)

Not supported.

Yes I am a tech mage however I don't use that kind of build. Heck caster mages are my bane, but I can still beat them it I use my brain and have a bit of luck. Plus your idea would affect all the other classes not just TM. While I agree that plasma bolt need a slight nerf since it is OP, agility doesn't need a buff. This will only have people complaining more especially when omega is just around the corner.



SCAR -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 16:31:00)

Supported, if you wanna battle & annoying mage why don't you take "syfy" for a spin, I agree, agility need's a nerf.



yellaboyung -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 16:47:01)

It needs to effect all classes! High hp is all every1 is doing now! I can guarantee if you tried using 95hp with any build (if ur lvl 34 or 35) you WQILL have a bad win %. U should be able to use 95-109hp and have nothing happen to your defenses and still win! But it's hard otherwise.

Look at the massacre bounty hunters. Many people think they're so OP...well buff Agility so you can even the playing fields and they wont be so OP.

The Blood Mages...I know a lot of people that say they're OP. But if you look at every single one of them. They will usually have a strength build with high hp. Again, buffing Agility will fix this issue.

Mercenaries are able to tank at 125-139hp? U know something's wrong if they're able to do that.

Tacts can tank as well as harm your health with poison, and what can you do to stop their high hp? Nothing.

The only way to stop high hp builds is to ultimately get high hp as well. Again, you should be able to have a good win % with 95-109hp.

This needs to happen and I can bet, it will even out things a lotttt in this game and can balance all the classes together.

0-95hp =0
96-109 = -1
110-125 = -2
126-139 = -4
140- 159 = -6
160+ = -8

If Agility is in this form, the game should be way more balanced than it has been in a long time. Trust me.



Mother1 -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 16:56:44)

@ yellaboyung

I can disagree with you on the low HP= bad win rate thing. I don't NPC grind, and I have a 70-80 win ratio which is pretty good considering I don't NPC grind. Also Scar I have fought Syly before and I have won against her few times. I have also beat these so call HP spammers as well and I only use 88 health with my build.



ND Mallet -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 16:56:48)

The problem with changing agility like that is that we easily could have more levels and since we're not able to put it into health or get more penalties from it then people will put it into strength to have a field day with the lowered health ranges.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 17:00:45)

not supported.

u want to beat them?
EMP/atom smash loop them.

but agility should not be increase.
all this will do is make focus builds stronger, and force people to put more stats into str because they get penalized for putting it in health.



Vegafire -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 17:08:58)

I was beating syfy with 94 HP with Bloodmage, sheild yourself... caster mages usually have no malf, if you can malf them and boost your res, hit them hard and a 10 bloodlust helps.... Not supported



yellaboyung -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 17:20:35)

If you raise agility, yeah more points can go to strength. And as the other guy said, focus builds will become even more powerful.

1st of all... there should be a type of thing like agility for each stat to make sure nobody is abusing it.

2nd of all, focus is already extremely powerful, and to be honest that's the devs fault for making bots hit that hard. To be honest, I think bots should only be used for support but since they're not, the devs should do what I said in number one. It can make sure nobody's bots can hit insanely hard, but still hard enough to fight with if you want it. This will make sure tanks cant abuse their dex and tech. And then if you wanna say everyone will be spamming strength now...why would they do that if there will be a negative side to that?

This will make sure nobody abuses stats at all! Throughout Epicduel history, Overpowered classes have always abused a stat in order to become overpowered.

We had the support spamming mercs in beta/early gamma,
Dex spamming bounty hunters with Shadow Arts when it also rose your critical hit ratio.
Support spamming mages in mid-gamma
Tech spamming mages in late gamma and early delta
AND WAYYY MORE THAN THIS!

This will send a message to stat abusers...If you wanna abuse a stat, you'll have to pay the price for it.

Also this will lead to more skills that seem useless now, being of use then if this happens.

I know it'll be hard for devs to even do this, but it can have an overall powerful positive effect on ED.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 17:33:24)

@yall
1st: not supported. we already have that ingame. its called diminishing returns.

2nd: robots already been nerfed, the damage used to be 35 at 5 focus, and before, u could use both attacks 1 after the other, because when u used 1 attack, it didn't cool down the second attack.


and yeah a build always abused a stat, but thats because stat abusing presents a strong point in which others are weak at.



Mother1 -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 17:35:03)

@ yellaboyung

And if they do this it will be only a temporary fix. Eventually people will find away around these 'balances' just like they did when the staff introduced to them to keep balance. Besides forcing people to do certain things just for balance doesn't work.

Also Robots are made from tech so it would make sense that they work with tech not support even if they do support you in battle. Plus people will always abuse something if they get what they want out of it so even with this as I stated it is only a temporary fix.



yellaboyung -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 18:13:49)

What you said did not back up what you said about it being a temporary fix. This will permanently fix stat abusers. It isn't aimed at balancing bots or any of that stuff. It's aimed at what we've been seeing overpowered classes do for years! And that diminishing stuff doesn't work as u can see. Making agility effect you more and create a similar thing like agility to all stats (strength, dexterity, technology, and support) Would make it so that stat abusers will still be able to abuse a stat but have an ultimate weakness, therefor, will stop what has been killing many players unfairly for as long as epicduel has been around.

Yes, there still will be some ways to be overpowered. But by doing this, It will eliminate most options for getting an overpowered class/build.

There will never be a 100% solution to balance everything out and the devs know this. But what they can do is patch up something OP that has been (for some strange reason) ignored ever since Alpha.



Mother1 -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 18:40:09)

@ yellaboyung

Agility is broken at best. I looked it up and the staff said it themselves that it was broken at best. So answer me how is using something that is already broken for all stats help balance? Answer it won't help. Remember there will be new level introduced to the game and with them will come extra stat points. Eventually there will be too many stat points, and everyone will suffer because of your idea so as I stated before it will be a temporary fix.

This idea will be rewarding focus builds and punishing all the others since focus builds since they will benefit from this the most. All other builds will suffer if this is put into play.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 18:52:23)

Omega will launch in less than a week and we will not be limited with weapon requirements any longer. When it happens look at the common build of each class and counter it instead of complaining about it.



arthropleura -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 19:20:13)

Ok... they have two less armor. You do two more damage. They gain one more mana. How does this help exactly?
Not supported x_x



Stabilis -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 21:00:56)

Rage and Agility do not fit together (balance-wise) at all. ← Needs attention.



Hard boy -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 21:10:20)

yes, high health "tech mages" are Op...
techmages are the most balanced class,(only balanced class).
listen, if u wanna increase agility ul force everyone and i mean everyone to go tank, and guess what happens next, INFERNAL BOT SPAM.
look the only classes the can prosper with around 95 hp are cyber hunters mercs and tac mercs, since they can easily tank with the armor passives, try a mage at 94 Hp its impossible 1 massacre can get u down to 30 hp for the least part.
mages have no blood lust, and with a 4 turn field medic cooldown its pretty hard to survive, and not to mention the low block percentage in this game atm. i littrally seen people with 14 defense points less than me, spam strike then zerker rage without a problem.
Enough with the unnecessary nerfs and just focus on mass and blood mages.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 21:14:59)

Mage definitely is a little stronger compared to some other classes in general, but not to an outrageous degree. If you're mainly addressing caster mages in this sense, they can in truth easily be countered with some builds that work against most other enemies too. For example, focus BH with high level EMP. You can shield yourself with energy shield and take away around 40 energy with EMP, which is a good counter. Another is just TLM or normal merc, and you abuse low levels of atom smasher and slowly remove 20-30 energy per turn, which is also quite effective. Also, in most cases, having HP past 140 is actually not beneficial to many classes, except those with reroute. If you increased the effect of agility, reroute would literally be the worst passive in the game, equal to or under shadow arts and adrenaline. Strength builds can also handle casters with ease, given the no-block factor and a strong build. Also, going first against a caster can really weigh them down. Hitting a high amount of damage on the first turn eliminates 10+ possible energy from reroute in many cases, which is a ton, so use that to your advantage if you go first.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: Simple mages... (12/9/2012 21:21:25)

I use a tank mage build, since I went Tac Merc, I forgot how to be offensive :/
My tank mage build works well, I can beat a lot of "OP" builds

Caster mage's aren't TOO OP, just plasma bolt
In fact, I beat syfy today...



yellaboyung -> RE: Simple mages... (12/10/2012 20:28:34)

Syfy has 110hp...Im talking about the casters with 140hp



Mother1 -> RE: Simple mages... (12/10/2012 20:38:07)

@ yellaboyung

I faced those kinds of casters and even though it is uphill for me and I have the disadvatage due to being a non caster TM I still have beaten them before. Also Syfy at one point did have 140 health. Most caster mages have weak defense due to spamming tech and health. Exploit that and as a mage myself, I malf them, to weaken their caster power, then I go at their weak defenses to sometimes come out on top. It isn't a grantee that I will win but when I do come out on top that makes it all the more sweeter.



Nexus... -> RE: Simple mages... (12/10/2012 22:18:44)

Agility doesn't need a buff. In fact, it needs to go altogether. It limits builds, and I've never liked anything that does that. If you can't beat a High HP Caster TM with any build, you have bigger problems than a Tech Mage lol


Prophet



fhiz -> RE: Simple mages... (12/11/2012 2:37:40)

Hmm, I think this thread is directed at builds like mine. Here's my perspective; the perspective of someone who uses many different builds and has a near level cap character of 4 out of 6 classes.


Epic Duel is like one big elaborate game of rock paper scissors. Every build has it's strengths and weaknesses. When I use my caster tech mage, I find focus tact mercs to be the hardest to deal with and their ability to loop atom smasher. However when I use my tact merc, I find strength bountys(an easy kill for my mage) to be the hardest because I use infernal bot leaving me with no counter for smoke.

Now the above isn't to say that all tact mercs will beat all mages. I have a nice 4 focus support build (old concept, i know) that can take down most 5 focus tact mercs. A high malfunction not only increases my damage, but also cripples their strongest attack. Not to mention the crits, which can be devastating to a low hp tank build. Why don't I just use this build instead of my caster you ask? Because it would open up a whole new can of worms. Defense matrix will protect me from physical, but with the low dexterity, technician doesn't provide enough resistance making my new weakness any class that can deal high amounts of energy damage.


Sorry if this dragged on for a while. I'm just trying to get my point across. Just know that every class has the ability to counter any build. You just have to accept the weaknesses that come with the new found strength.



Mysterion. -> RE: Simple mages... (12/11/2012 2:53:22)

You said your TLM build has problems with a Str bounty.
I dont see that problem, to be honest.

Only build i find hard to beat is a Support TM, with my 5 focus TLM.
The rest are easy because when you take their energy with a Atomlvl 4, they are nothing.



fhiz -> RE: Simple mages... (12/11/2012 3:41:43)

^ Don't get me wrong, Strength bounties aren't unbeatable. I usually do it if my atom smasher connects. I can probably attribute my problems to being 2 levels under the cap and lacking about 15 enhancements. Yes, support tech mages are tougher
quote:

I have a nice 4 focus support build (old concept, i know) that can take down most 5 focus tact mercs.
, but what I said about bounties was just to present the rock paper scissors concept.

The important thing is not to get hung up on the details and realize that every build has it's strengths and weaknesses and none are unbeatable. (I believe you understand this already Mysterion. but my posts are mainly for the ones who have not grasped that yet.)



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition
0.109375