RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (Full Version)

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Clutch -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:19:03)

@ Goldslayer
Fistly where are you coming up with this number of Thousands of players that would have stayed if the game was more fun?

Secondly to your point of "since when does making the game BETTER decrease revenue?"
Obviously when the costs associated with making the game better are not worth the payoff... its called opportunity cost.

Thirdly, build copying has existed and always will exist, be there luck or no luck.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:19:09)

@comical
i know, i was trying to see his reply, if he said 20k+ losses was an unskillful player, then i would have said if he's calling u unskillful.


quote:

Fistly where are you coming up with this number of Thousands of players that would have stayed if the game was more fun?


how many low lvls do u see in the game?
how many people do u see in the servers daily?
barely reaches 2k on average. and i can tell u that most of those are high lvl players.


low lvl players come to this game and see pro winrates of 90%
and they see that they cant get those and quit.

iv'e experienced many players who quit because of this, including a handful of friends (PvPers from AQW) who came and quit after a week as well for these reasons.



cool preston -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:19:34)

Ratios are needed to express how good you really are. Let the enemy see your win/loss ratio let them be afraid. It is only the number of win/loss be proud of that number. It shows your skill and ability as a player to beat people and show your worth.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:23:01)

quote:

Ratios are needed to express how good you really are. Let the enemy see your win/loss ratio let them be afraid. It is only the number of win/loss be proud of that number. It shows your skill and ability as a player to beat people and show your worth.

buffy has 9k+ wins and 17 losses she must be the most skillful player in the game then by ur logic huh.

now tell me how much "fun" did buffy have getting that record?



Angels Holocaust -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:25:00)

Buffy is super pro, she makes me look like a noob any day of the week. God bless her soul.



cool preston -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:25:34)

@goldslayer

I wasn't saying how good anyone was I was just saying the ratio lets people know your skill and how good you are. I'm not applying it to anyone you did that.



Nexus... -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:25:48)

Your skill and ability to beat people show your skill and ability to beat people, not your ratio. Take this for an example.

A player with 2000 wins and 5000 losses, gets bored and gives his account away to a veteran epicduel player. That Veteran immediately buys a 10k package, makes a rediculously clever build, and starts wrecking everyone he plays. His ratio will be telling you that all you need to do is throw EMP's and auto-attack to win, but in the meantime his actions will be pwning your face, leaving him with full hp, and you with none. Ratio's are misleading. Some are based 75% on NPC's making that player look great when they shouldn't, and some are based on builds that were overpowered, and allowed the player to gain MANY MANY wins through very little skill whatsoever.


The point is, a bad player won't necessarily have a bad ratio nor will a good player necessarily have a good one, and therefore why do we need them? We don't.


Prophet



Clutch -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:25:50)

@Goldslayer
As to your point on skill, I simply stated that the current mindset of ED was that a person with a worse win record is viewed as more unskilled, and if you read my original post, I hoped to change that mentality, however taking away win ratio's is not the answer.



Nexus... -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:28:21)

quote:

I wasn't saying how good anyone was I was just saying the ratio lets people know your skill and how good you are. I'm not applying it to anyone you did that.


You said that your ratio shows how good you are, so by nature, somone with a good ratio (like buffy) would be a very good player, right? Right? Right? Or are you just saying words and then claiming they have no meaning?


Prophet >_>



Clutch -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:28:28)

@Nexus
How many times must I repeat myself, i'm simply stating that the current ED mentality is that win ratio implies skill, and therefore people will spend more and more to keep high ratio's and maintain that 'status' of being viewed as skilled, whether you actually are is irrelevant.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:29:55)

quote:

@Goldslayer
As to your point on skill, I simply stated that the current mindset of ED was that a person with a worse win record is viewed as more unskilled, and if you read my original post, I hoped to change that mentality, however taking away win ratio's is not the answer.


u mean taking away the problem (and that mentality completely) isn't the answer?
/facepalm

if u want people to know how skillful u are, make videos of u battling, beat others in battles, etc.


the game is already based on wins, if u argue otherwise, then why aren't the leader boards based on % and not wins?

dailies? wins
all time? wins
faction dailies? wins

ratios plays no role whatsoever in these types of thing.



cool preston -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:30:06)

@nexus That's against the ed rules for one thing so didn't occur to me and another thing is win/loss ratio does not tell you if you can beat them or not or if they beat you. It's simply win/loss affected by everything. npc's the whole shabang. I for one never measure an opponent by win/loss I look at their build and the best possible way to defeat them.



Nexus... -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:32:04)

quote:

How many times must I repeat myself, i'm simply stating that the current ED mentality is that win ratio implies skill, and therefore people will spend more and more to keep high ratio's and maintain that 'status' of being viewed as skilled, whether you actually are is irrelevant.


I don't know if you know this yet, but come omega people are no longer going to be able to "spend more and more to keep high ratio's" so your point is entirely invalid.

quote:

I for one never measure an opponent by win/loss I look at their build and the best possible way to defeat them.


So why do we need the ratio if you don't measure a players skill by it anyway?


Prophet



goldslayer1 -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:32:45)

a better indication than ratios of how good a player is their build, and their play style. not their ratio.

i know several mercs who are really skilled at this game but dont have super good ratios.
i know BHs who are skilled and dont have good ratios. same goes for mages.

also their experience.
i would assume someone like comical would have a ton of experience compared to someone with 5k wins.



comicalbike -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:35:04)

Nexus i never care about my win ratio i used to like fast play skill and fun win or lose



Clutch -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:39:37)

@Goldslayer
I agree that what you say are better measures of skill, but it doesn't matter. Nothing is as tangible as a win record, it's why people obsess over them, lets be real.

Edit:
quote:

I don't know if you know this yet, but come omega people are no longer going to be able to "spend more and more to keep high ratio's" so your point is entirely invalid.


What? Of course they will, having a high ratio is relative, while you may not have a 95% win ratio, you might have 85% ratio while others have 80%. People will still spend more to get a higher ratio than those around them. Its all relative thus rendering your point invalid.

Please do not double-post, it is considered spam and only clutters the page. Next time use the edit button to add in any additional information to your post.
For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Posting Behavior. ~Mecha



Mother1 -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:46:12)

@ clutch

He meant they won't be able to grind on NPC for free wins anymore since that will be removed. many people would grind on them to improve their win ratio in one vs one. And in the infernal war you got a one shot chance to improve you 2 vs 2 record.



comicalbike -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:46:44)

i don't think the win rate will matter any more if you find a good win rate they will say the class is to strong and nerf you



Clutch -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:48:29)

@Mother
I understand, but people weren't spending more to beat NPC's, they were spending more to beat the players, anyone with outdated weapons could beat NPCs. Without the NPC's the win ratio's might go down, but its all relative, people will still spend more to beat those around them and have a higher win ratio relative to everyone else.



Nexus... -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:51:21)

Clutch, you don't understand. You will not be able to buy better weapons anymore. The game is not going to be pay to win as it has been for a super long time now, all weapons will be virtually the same at all levels, whether they are non-var or not. You will literally NOT be able to spend money to get a better percent, as varium will no longer give an advantage in PvP.

...


Prophet



Mysterion. -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:52:17)

Nexus.

Why does the win-lose ratio suddenly a problem.
You said you played over 3 years, and now you start about it?

Probably because youre also a NPC farmer and because you cant keep your record in PvP battles you want to get rid of it.
This is what i also think of Angels holocaust. Shes a NPC farmer, and she never mentioned the win-lose ratio to be rmoved.

Until the NPC records are removed you suddenly start complaining about the rratios



comicalbike -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:55:12)

i npcs farm so i can get credits i classed changed 3 times yesterday cost me 150,000 in creditds thats what the npcs are for



Clutch -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:55:16)

@Nexus
I'm not too familiar with Omega other than that the NPC's are going, if this is the case then wow, what is the point of varium then lol?



goldslayer1 -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:56:56)

@mysterion
this isn't anything new, if u weren't so new here, u would know angels suggested the removal of losses and winrates back in early delta. (if not before that)
thats WAY before NPCs were even thought of being removed.



Nexus... -> RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios (12/14/2012 3:57:37)

I have not done an NPC in a couple of days, and never farmed NPC's more than the next person. Don't make blind assumptions. As for your question, Omega brings many changes, and this would give an incentive for casual players and competetive players alike to still play, regardless of the ratio degradation that may come in the next couple of weeks.


@Clutch
Yeah, when I found out my jaw dropped as well, but its true. Maybe now you can see where I am coming from. And yeah, I know no more about what varium will do now than you do, but it will no longer give an advantage in a fight, thats for sure.


Prophet



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