Conditional Counter Luck. (Full Version)

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Remorse -> Conditional Counter Luck. (12/14/2012 23:53:32)

As we all know , luck has a major influence in this game.

But it is of coarse 100% needed, but I believe some luck situtations are simply downright unfair which is why Conditional Counter Luck changes as i call them should be made.

Feel free to add your own ideas if you think you can come up with some.

These ideas are intended to lower the unfair luck situations, rather then lower the chance of luck directly.



Conditional Counter Luck.

-Massacre cannot crit (reason is its basically a free win)

-After stunning someone if decide to attack the stunned person you gain no rage from that attack. ( reason why would you get rage if attacking something that is unconscious)

-If you get deflected the opponent gains no rage from the damage they do receive. ( blocks gives no rage, neither should deflections)

-If you crit, the damage that ignores defense should not give rage. (So if you lucky to get a crit you should also get alot of rage?? NO stupid)

-Skills that can be blocked, should still apply the effect, eg. CH static should still give mana , Assimilation should still drain mana just no damage.



Feel free to argue against the ideas you don't like, Or add your own ideas but try to add reasoning for the idea.






Average -> RE: Conditional Counter Luck. (12/15/2012 0:22:33)

1.) Supported
2.) I don't really see this as a big issue, but it does make sense if you were going for realistic.
3.) Not supported. The rage gain from the low amount of damage from a deflection doesn't normally give that much.
4.) Supported
5.) Since poisons do this, it's only fair. Supported.



Mother1 -> RE: Conditional Counter Luck. (12/15/2012 0:23:47)

quote:

-Massacre cannot crit (reason is its basically a free win)


Not supported. Every move other then bunker plasma cannon and cheapshot have the same chance to crit. Why should this one not crit? Doing so would be a nerf to support since support works with crits.

quote:

-After stunning someone if decide to attack the stunned person you gain no rage from that attack. ( reason why would you get rage if attacking something that is unconscious)


You are still attacking the person period and once again plus what if the person users chairman's fury on you which is designed to take rage? It wouldn't be fair in the least.

quote:

-If you get deflected the opponent gains no rage from the damage they do receive. ( blocks gives no rage, neither should deflections)


You must have been gone for a while. They fixed the bug that caused you to get no rage from these so now deflections, blocks, and crits give you rage. Once again you would be nerfing support once again.

quote:

If you crit, the damage that ignores defense should not give rage. (So if you lucky to get a crit you should also get alot of rage?? NO stupid)


You don't gain a lot of rage when you crit. You only gain a little bit of extra rage. Are you asking for no rage gain at all from an attack just because you got a crit? Just because it was base on chance?

quote:

Skills that can be blocked, should still apply the effect, eg. CH static should still give mana , Assimilation should still drain mana just no damage


We already have that in the form of debuffs as well as special abilites such as curse, and frost. Also making static give back energy no matter what? For starters static works with actual damage so 0 damage (AKA block) would still give back 0 energy since 0% of anything is 0. As for assimalation not supported. Granteed energy drain no matter what would wreak several builds and would overpower this balanced move.



Remorse -> RE: Conditional Counter Luck. (12/15/2012 0:26:29)

@ Average
Some changes do very little difference,


But if you add it up i total these small changes could help.


For example you dont think idea 2.

Is much of a difference because stuns occur rarely.

But since omega may call for alot of stun guns etc.
It may mean alot of stuns occur.
Stuns no only cost the player a turn but also make the opponent rage a turn early.

Thats what my idea is trying to fix the early rage.



@ Mother.

Its obvious that you like how luck is but here is some further reasoning.


Crits are basically a rage attack.

So if critting you could say having a rage attack why is it fair that you also get a faster rage ON top of that?? I think it makes sence that ay if you shielded and the person crits you they still aslo get a rage straight after making the sheild basically useless BECAUSE the crit damage that ignored the defense still gave rage.


Critting masacre is basically a one hit kill for STR builds, its not nerfing support its buffing STR because no one can recover from a crit massacre but they can recover from a crit cheap/bunker.

Getting stunned is losing a turn is that not a disadvanatge enoguh or do you think it fair they should also rage early??




Mother1 -> RE: Conditional Counter Luck. (12/15/2012 0:31:54)

Remorse

Ever since they fixed that bug if I block a strength BM they rage on turn 3 due to high attack. Plus your ideas would be nerfing support builds since they would gain no rage with crits, if they stun someone they would gain rage the next turn and a couple of other things as well.

Also if static worked with raw damage like it used I would definatly now support the last idea since blocks is the only thing that stops static and by making the effect still apply they would have a granteed source of energy. Not even reroute is that powerful But as I said that would be if static still worked with raw damage.

Plus as I stated what about chairman's fury which is designed to steal rage and give it to you? That would be a nerf to this promo if someone was to use it on a stunned person only not to gain rage.



Remorse -> RE: Conditional Counter Luck. (12/15/2012 0:35:56)

^ Support needs to be helped in other ways.


To say this is nerfing support is saying support is the only build benefiting from these unfair luck situations. But this is not true.


The rage from chairmans attack could be the exception to gaining rage on stunned charcaters.


Like with all ideas, there would aslo be considerations here and there, sometimes you have to assume the consideration are in place instead of just declining the idea because of that small consideration.



Drianx -> RE: Conditional Counter Luck. (12/15/2012 0:45:04)

1. Then all ultimates should not crit as well. Otherwise no. Builds that rely on Massacre are not OP anymore.

2. Whaterver. Unimportant, because that Rage gain itself hardly turns the tide of the battle.

3. Same as 2.

4. Crits do not work that way. This is one of the often mistakes that I constantly see on the forums.

5. No problem for Static Charge, but Assimilation would instantly become OP, like an EMP with no mana cost. Not supported.



Mother1 -> RE: Conditional Counter Luck. (12/15/2012 0:59:03)

the reason why I am against making massacre not crit is because as I said every move other then those three moves have the same chance to crit and everyone offensive move has the chance to crit. It is like saying that if someone punched you in the face there should be no chance that they should knocked you out (AKA a crit hit) This game is partly logic based and not being able to crit massacre while all other can crit isn't logicial. Plus as trans said before why should something get nerfed because one build is abusing it? To be honest with you all the nerfs wheather they are luck based or complaint based are all because of strength builds. Most want to nerf moves because X build is abusing them while not thinking about W, Y, and Z builds.

On your last one this would only help out assimalite since every other move that has an effect that is blocked goes through anyways. As I already pointed out static since it works with actual damage now won't benefit from this since any % of 0 is 0 since it works with actual damage.

As for the 3rd idea the reasoning behind it as I pointed out was flawed since deflections, give your opponents rage just as blocks does.

Also you are right I don't mind chance in the game since it affects us all equally and doesn't take favorites. I can understand how some don't like it saying that it causes you to lose matches that you should have won, but at the same time it does help you win matches you may have lost. That is why I don't let it bother me.



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