Mass, DA and Adrenaline (Full Version)

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Mysterion. -> Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 2:50:16)

My first suggestion for the mayor balance problem with Massacre is this.
We will make massacre damage scaled just like the 2 other Specials (Surgical strike and Super charge).
This is how it will look like:

Massacre: Energy/Psysical strike; 30% life stealing; (The total life steal will be 30%, BL will not add any %)
Energy Required:
Level 1: 32
Level 2: 35
Level 3: 38
Level 4: 41
Level 5: 44
Level 6: 47
Level 7: 50
Level 8: 53
Level 9: 56
Level 10: 59

Weapon Required: Wrist Blades
Stat Required: 24 Strength (at lvl 1)
Level Required: 10
Improves With: Support (+1 damage at 21 Support; +1 damage per 4 Support after)
Warm Up: 3
Cool Down: 3

This will be a little different then Surgical and Super since now the dmg will be improved by only 4 support, instead of the regular 5 that surgical and super have.
Why? Because massacre wont have any special effect added like rage steal or defence ignored.
The kind of dmg (P or E) will be based on the Primarys kind of dmg.


Now my second point is the DA of the well known BMs.
Why? Because BM dominates with all their str skills, and there gun is probably the most dangerous thing of them.
Thats why i want to switch DA with adrenaline.


Now my third point is the Mercs, everybody calls them the UP class.
Thats why i want them to have DA instead of Adrenaline.
Why? Because adrenaline is probably the worst passive of all, and mercs with DA will be a bit less UP.
Not entirely though, it cant make them OP.
But since blood commander gives them Strength by support, i would like to modify the requirments:
Deadly Aim: Passively increases the damage of the equipped sidearm (passive skill). See Deadly Aim Scale. Energy Required: 0 (passive)
Gun Damage Increase:
Level 1: 10%
Level 2: 13%
Level 3: 16%
Level 4: 19%
Level 5: 21%
Level 6: 23%
Level 7: 25%
Level 8: 26%
Level 9: 27%
Level 10: 28%

Weapon Required: Side Arm
Stat Required: 24 Dexterity
Level Required: 10
Improves With: None
Warm Up: None
Cool Down: None

So, DA, wont become more since it is based on the dmg of the gun (33, 34, 45) and not on your actual strength

So, what do you think of this?



ND Mallet -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 2:52:17)

Just would like to throw out that Mercs have Blood Commander which improves with Support(DA requires support) and improves your strength.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 2:53:50)

quote:

Massacre: Energy/Psysical strike; 30% life stealing;
Energy Required:
Level 1: 32
Level 2: 35
Level 3: 38
Level 4: 41
Level 5: 44
Level 6: 47
Level 7: 50
Level 8: 53
Level 9: 56
Level 10: 59

its already "scaled"
but the damage is based on weapon damage.
i already have an upcoming suggestion (was actually writing it right now)

and would life steal be stacked with bloodlust? (highly doubt it u would say it should be)



Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 2:54:07)

Hmm, lets add DA a bit then.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 3:19:04)

i have to agree though, DA on BM is a little meh.

mainly because BM can use any build and its gun will always be its primary source of damage.
it can use focus builds and it has TWO good offensive options.
gun and robot. combined with rage and bloodlust and their tanking, it makes for a formidable (maybe too much) build.

im not saying the other things are the problem, but at least 5 focus tech mage isn't gaining HP by attacking like BM is.

ontop of that, the skills simply click too well, energy shield? reflex? intimidate? DA? all support based (requirements or improvement wise)

energy shield IMO should be replaced with bloodshield.
idk why they added in energy shield.

a balanced focus build can basically use these shields that are both support based to counter other builds, + their already tanking capability since they are putting high dex and high tech.

quote:

(The total life steal will be 30%, BL will not add any %)

ur kinda making both of these skills useless then.



Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 3:42:04)

No goldslayer.

BM also has BL and SC and SC also has 30% life steal. So it would be the same as BM.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 3:43:25)

@mysterion
and now we know why u dont see so many BMs using SC.
the cost is too high, and has little rewards.



Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 3:46:54)

quote:

and now we know why u dont see so many BMs using SC.
the cost is too high, and has little rewards.


And thats why massacre should also be like SS and SC.
Those also give to little reward for the high costs.
Because now its too OP compared to those.

They will still use it since its the best build for BHs.
BMs dont use it because it does not fit into any build.




goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 3:53:28)

quote:

Because now its too OP.

its not OP, the energy requirements are huge for a mass build.

look at all the effective mass builds these days. they all have 85+ energy.
ur telling me u cant use an energy drainer?

its not the skill thats OP, its the amount of energy. energy is whats allowing them to use it at higher lvls, because i know u wouldn't dream of saying its OP at lvl 1.

secondly, mass was intended for damage, thats why it doesn't have other effects like life steal.

this is why i made my suggestion for the hp and EP change.

make Ep 1 stat = 1 EP. and 1 stat = 3 HP

this makes it so that its harder to use mass builds because of energy requirements, and gives more health to other players to survive such attacks from strength builds.

haven't u noticed that usually high energy builds tend to be the OP ones?

super charge dex mage was one of them, they used lvl 8-10 super charge. with nearly 80 energy.
caster mages now use 90+

why? because energy allows them to constantly keep using attacks, at higher lvls, misleading people to think its OP.



RageSoul -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 3:58:04)

^ Yeah , that's kinda like what i'm saying at the people from the past posts from topics about "how Caster TM is OPed" .



Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:01:17)

Goldslayer

We all know that Massacre is the most strong attack of all.
Since it improves with your weps and strength.

Too OP compared to SS and SC, thats why it should be like those 2.
But because those have 2 specials on it, mass will improve by only 4 support instead of the regular 5 tech of SS and SC.
And the life steal will be 30% like SS and SC also have.

This would make all specials equal, like they are supposed to be.

About the energy.
Normal mass builds have Mass on lvl 7-8?
Thats why it is so OP, but when i was a BH, i made it lvl 4.
And it was still way to OP for a lvl 4 skill compared to all other skills like SS and SC.
Taking the energy away is not a solution.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:05:38)

quote:

We all know that Massacre is the most strong attack of all.

ur suggestion may make it weaker (which doesn't need to be)

but it doesn't make it valuable.

the cost for good damage is simply too much. this is why other classes dont use their specials much either.

thats why i suggested my change, to change the other specials to be on par value wise to massacre.

quote:

Normal mass builds have Mass on lvl 7-8?
Thats why it is so OP, but when i was a BH, i made it lvl 4.

yes, strength BHs evolved. they are increasing their mass along with energys. back in gamma a mass build had about 65 energy tops. not 91-95 like some builds im seeing.

and once again, ur not understanding.

super charge ignores resistance and heals
surgical takes rage, and heals
mass... only damage.

thats why it makes sense for its damage to be slightly higher than the others.



Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:14:25)

quote:

ur suggestion may make it weaker (which doesn't need to be)

but it doesn't make it valuable.

the cost for good damage is simply too much. this is why other classes dont use their specials much either.

thats why i suggested my change, to change the other specials to be on par value wise to massacre.


Yes, they dont use it as much, and that why massacre needs a nerf.
There special is way to strong compared to SS and SC.
SS and SC are also not valuable, and thats why Mass should also be like that.

quote:

super charge ignores resistance and heals
surgical takes rage, and heals
mass... only damage.


Mass heals, and improves there dmg faster then SS and SC.
So mass will still deal more dmg then SS and SC when they have the same stats.



RageSoul -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:20:43)

@Mysterion
Correction : BL does the healing for Mass , not the skill itself




goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:22:49)

@Mysterion
bloodlust is NOT an excuse for massacre healing.

bloodlust works with every attack.
and it requires its individual skill points. aswell as requirements.
they are 2 completely different skills. bloodlust is not a viable excuse for a healing in mass. as there may be Bhs who dont use bloodlust.



Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:31:11)

Goldslayer and lord.
Read my post.
30% life steal. BL wont add any %.

Please read more carefully in the future



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:31:55)

quote:

30% life steal. BL wont add any %.

i read, but u used bloodlust as an excuse for calling mass OP saying it already heals. when massacre doesn't give u healing.



Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:41:44)

No goldslayer. I said mass heals and dmg improves faster. WITH MY SUGGESTION.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 4:55:18)

@mysterion

ur idea = make mass useless
my idea = make SS and SC valuable like mass


effects:
ur idea = kill build
My idea = Create more viable builds.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 8:55:52)

@goldslayer or @mysteron who was talking for adrenaline,
Its not the worst passive skill and now i will tell you why is good.

See now.
You have max adrenaline or lvl 5. ( you get rage in 3rd round, EVEN GET RAGE WHEN YOU HEAL, AND WHEN YOU BUFF! )
But if a player dont have adrenaline he ( get rage in 5th round, Dont get rage when he heals or when he buffs )

With adrenaline you can increase rage EVEN if you use buff or heal. And u get it in less round.
It made me win alots of battles, so its not true.

Gold. do you know what? .
They nerfed the static cause it recovered too much energy even if you hit the enemy for 3 damage u was recovering like 20 energy.
Imagine if someone have 89 energy and somebody crit static for 50. Almost recover fully. Isnt that little op excuse me?
You already have Shadow art for ( blocking passive ) , Plasma armor ( resistance passive ) And the Massarce.

Your idea = Making SC pro like before but the idea isnt good cause alot of people will get owned, pissed, and quit the game. Alot of players quit the game because of the Static Charge pros. And its still balanced even with the static nerfs.

Your idea and form wont make viable the build. Well it will, but also if the SC is going back to Pro thing, alot of players will quit the game.
If you hit 3 damage is not normal u recover 18 energy like it was in early delta. that was just too much.

Actually Mysterion idea wasnt to make mass useless, He just wanted mass to get nerfed because It hits way too much on smoke even on tank players and after that there is rage and also the bloodlust is giving more HP.


Greatly Kind of Regards to the Both misters.



RageSoul -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 10:12:17)

Pardon me to get into your discussion , Warmaker , but ..

quote:


Its not the worst passive skill and now i will tell you why is good.

See now.
You have max adrenaline or lvl 5. ( you get rage in 3rd round, EVEN GET RAGE WHEN YOU HEAL, AND WHEN YOU BUFF! )
But if a player dont have adrenaline he ( get rage in 5th round, Dont get rage when he heals or when he buffs )

I can still Rage the same rate as you , just not that immediately though . Why you ask? Intimidate me , and later, expect a huge damaging hit to finish you off later . You have Hybrid Armor , so i hit less than before with Primary and Gun , but not Aux and Bot ( and damage skills like Plasma Bolt ) . Even if Surgical is present , still i can ruin every tactic you make via EP drain .

quote:


They nerfed the static cause it recovered too much energy even if you hit the enemy for 3 damage u was recovering like 20 energy.
Imagine if someone have 89 energy and somebody crit static for 50. Almost recover fully. Isnt that little op excuse me?
You already have Shadow art for ( blocking passive ) , Plasma armor ( resistance passive ) And the Massarce.

And so ? The class didn't have fixed passives ( i.e passive that are 100% working and not heavily based on luck ) plus them having Technician back then was fine since once a player's Malf fades away , Technician is there , meaning stronger bot damage and stronger EMP . Plus , they weren't really OPed since you can't heal-loop as long as you wanted until you're dead or the other player's dead , like TM .

quote:

Your idea = Making SC pro like before but the idea isnt good cause alot of people will get owned, pissed, and quit the game. Alot of players quit the game because of the Static Charge pros. And its still balanced even with the static nerfs.


quote:

Your idea and form wont make viable the build. Well it will, but also if the SC is going back to Pro thing, alot of players will quit the game.
If you hit 3 damage is not normal u recover 18 energy like it was in early delta. that was just too much.


I think you misunderstood him . By SC , he means Super Charge , not Static .

And BTW , i don't think Mass improved by SUPP won't really make things better . It's just gonna ruin build creativity and variety .




Scyze -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 12:02:01)

If Massacre takes 30% of the damage done, shouldn't that make it stronger? At Level 10 Blood Lust, it only regains 23%.




Mysterion. -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 12:19:06)

@ Lord Aegis

quote:

It's just gonna ruin build creativity and variety .


How is a Smoke/Bl/Mass build creative?
Bh's all have the same build, there isnt any variety or creativety in it.
Except the focus ones, but they are already outnumbered by the str builds.

@ Malicious Neos
Yes it does give them more life steal.
But since SS and SC have 2 effects, mass should also have one.
And since BL is a seperate skill you should not count it as a part of mass.
Mass's power will be reduced, but still a little bit better then SS and SC since it only has one effect.



RageSoul -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/16/2012 23:26:28)

@Mysterion
No variety? Isn't that the same with the other classes' builds?

quote:

Bh's all have the same build, there isnt any variety or creativety in it.

DEX abuse is one of those creative builds , but sad to say , it was drastically nerfed for no good reason . Then , TECH 4 Focus or non-Focus is also another one .



goldslayer1 -> RE: Mass, DA and Adrenaline (12/17/2012 0:00:26)

quote:

They nerfed the static cause it recovered too much energy even if you hit the enemy for 3 damage u was recovering like 20 energy.
Imagine if someone have 89 energy and somebody crit static for 50. Almost recover fully. Isnt that little op excuse me?
You already have Shadow art for ( blocking passive ) , Plasma armor ( resistance passive ) And the Massarce.

static was only "OP" because of plasma armor. but i was talking about super charge, not static charge.



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