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NDB -> Support (12/27/2012 17:21:54)
On the topic of Rage (my other post http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=20974008), I have another suggestion to help make Rage and Support more balanced. To make sure I know what I'm doing, is it true that most players think that support is UP? Is it true that many players think Rage is unbalanced with strength players (they actually attack an get Rage extremely easily + the only way to counter them, Tank, is defeated by Rage etc.)? That the Support increase on Rage is useless or ineffective, that Adrenaline is UP? If "yes" to any of these questions, I hope you will take my suggestion seriously. What if support increased the amount of defenses ignored with rage instead of increasing the speed in which you obtained Rage? So, here's how it works. If both players have equal support, the base Rage would be 45% ignore, like how it is currently. With every support advantage of 5, your ability to ignore increases by +1% and the opposing players would decrease by 1%. The cap will be 30%-60% (in order to reach the cap, you need to have a 75 support advantage over the opponent) That way, strength users, with less support, ignore less, and as a result are not so strong, while support players ignore more. Example: Player A: 40 support, 30 defenses. Player B: 70 support, 30 defenses. When Player A uses Rage on Player B, he/she will only ignore 39%=11.7 or 12 more damage. When Player B does, he/he will ignore 51%= 15.3 or 16 (ED round-ups) or 16 more damage. Fair?

arthropleura -> RE: Support (12/27/2012 20:45:19)
I find that support affects rage gain pretty well but not as effective as str, removing the rage gain isn't really good.. How about both effects :D

NDB -> RE: Support (12/27/2012 22:26:00)
^Alright then both. [;)]

hawtnezz -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 2:03:21)
strength just increases the damage while support increases critical first strike rage gain etc. support already had a huge crit change advantage over strength. absolutely not necessary. rage is meant to be an anti tank feature and at the moment its absolutely fine.

NDB -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 2:51:07)
quote: strength just increases the damage while support increases critical first strike rage gain etc. support already had a huge crit change advantage over strength. absolutely not necessary. So suddenly Support is better than Strength now? I don't think so.... quote: rage is meant to be an anti tank feature and at the moment its absolutely fine. Of course it was meant as an anti tank feature, but I don't think you fully understand the concept of this new idea: It is meant to debuff Strength users and buff Support users. Simple as that. It will still be an anti tanking feature so I don't see what your problem is. You think just because it sounds OP its OP. In fact, it is anything but OP. In the example above, the difference in damage between the players was only 4, with quite a big support gap. Even at max, a huge, 75 support difference, would only be 9, using the same deference. That's crazy OP now? An "absolutely not", as you put it?

hawtnezz -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 4:01:20)
strength and support scale at the same rate. the enhancements have ruined all builds except support. if u remember back in gamma or early bets 2 by 2 was filled with support mercs. why cause crit aux and multi worked well. with the omega mercs will get back to their glory and they have adreline to boost their rage. moreover a first turn is a major advantage over strength. one crit with massive in enough to cripple a strength with low defences ( considering enhancements are removed) i am not saying your idea is OP . i am just stating its not needed for support. maybe a focus benifit or a strength benifit. previously focus had +5 to all skills damage but since the enhancements are leaving focus needs some more advantage. thats all.

Remorse -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 4:36:58)
BRILLIANT IDEA! Support is in major need of a buff, rage is OP for certain builds but nerfing it any other way would be unfair to the builds that arnt abusing rage. This is truly a great idea! I think however that the support influence should be stronger then in the example. Theoretically I would like to see STR abusers who put the bare minimum in support get nothing more then 20% Armour ignoring with rage. But spamming support should theoretically only have a max of around 70% Why? I think STR builds need to be countered rage is making the too effortless, unfair and oped. Also if this happens adrenaline could be changed to not only increase the speed at which you rage but also the amount of Armour ignored, passively.

hawtnezz -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 6:33:49)
o.o take a merc with 100 suport. just plain simple 100 with max adreline. do a aux and multi u will have rage. if u have a dage gun with u u will rage on the 3rd turn and that extra ignore % is enough to mess 2 by 2. we really need a test server to try out all the new ideas of hunking and ever brilliant mind who comes with these for 3 months before going live :D

Remorse -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 6:46:39)
^ Very true

masterbobi -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 9:04:25)
Yes but with the new system high support builds will have less than 70 hp which means they have 2 turns to do what they do. They also rely on crits which is very bad because if you rely on luck, you will fail most of the times. Especially since crit chance got nerfed. I think support builds are dead. They need to change so they can be viable again and overpowered. By the way they were never OP. They were just a counter to not tanks who had 95 hp or less.

arthropleura -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 10:45:53)
@hatnezz: tschk, I guess you're a str build eager to maintain your edge? Str gains rage by completely overtaking the opponents armor and doin more damage Support has to use a higher multiplier on lower damage to gain rage Guess who comes out on top? @hatnezz again: how many builds like that do you see?

hawtnezz -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 11:10:58)
i do not know if your an old timer but back then items that gave you strength had requirement of strength except a few. you would barely find a energy gun with a non support requirement. Double strike zerk was a risky but fun game.... But with gamma and mages with +40 matrix really messed the game. I had to let Go of my azreal sword cause i wanted to use atom. So i was forced to do 2 by 2 with an mjnor for one whole year till the gamma bot popped up. I dont want the multi era to come again, Where your opponents names are miraged. No thank you. Or the gamma bot era where zerk = block. I kinda want omega but then again i swore never to Buy varium again so lets see. I hated it when they made it pay to win. Or survival of the fittest. The fun was lost

NDB -> RE: Support (12/28/2012 17:07:35)
quote: i do not know if your an old timer but back then items that gave you strength had requirement of strength except a few. you would barely find a energy gun with a non support requirement. Double strike zerk was a risky but fun game.... But with gamma and mages with +40 matrix really messed the game. I had to let Go of my azreal sword cause i wanted to use atom. So i was forced to do 2 by 2 with an mjnor for one whole year till the gamma bot popped up. I dont want the multi era to come again, Where your opponents names are miraged. No thank you. Or the gamma bot era where zerk = block. I kinda want omega but then again i swore never to Buy varium again so lets see. I hated it when they made it pay to win. Or survival of the fittest. The fun was lost I don't see what your trying to get at (and btw I am an old timer), but I had no intention of bringing back Merc/Tactical Artillary Strike builds. I don't see how a simple change on support, which is clearly UP the way it is now, is supposed to suddenly cause chaos with Multi builds. I mean it's not like this suggestion buffs Multis in any way. It'll still be 85% 2v2. quote: o.o take a merc with 100 suport. just plain simple 100 with max adreline. do a aux and multi u will have rage. if u have a dage gun with u u will rage on the 3rd turn and that extra ignore % is enough to mess 2 by 2. Now here's how your statement would be, in current balance: "o.o take a merc with 100 suport. just plain simple 100 with max adreline. do a aux and multi u will have rage. if u have a dage gun with u u will rage on the 3rd turn" Not much of a difference, eh? Your example can easily be done now, except with the ignore, and it'll completely fail in 2v2 So... if you think that 10% more ignore on Rage is suddenly going to do it, I think you are sadly mistaken... Not to mention this example is ridiculous, as a) even with Max Adrenaline, you won't know that they will have Rage on 3rd turn, especially since they are very likely to heal. b) How many people do you think have Dage's gun? In my opinion, your complaining about Dage's gun rather than my suggestion by saying that... and I agree that it is OP. c) A 100 support Merc would get slaughtered in Omega

Remorse -> RE: Support (12/29/2012 0:29:19)
I Think people are not understanding that support builds are truly dead and this is because of heal no longer improving with support, This idea WILL NOT bring back the oped support builds BECAUSE heal is still not going to be improved with support HOWEVER what this idea may do is bring some variety and creativity allowing more support style builds to be used without being abused. Plus on the top of that lessen the abuse of STR builds!! Brilliant! Great idea NDB

NDB -> RE: Support (12/29/2012 1:36:30)
^Thanks for the support Remorse [:)]. Couldn't have said it better

Midnightsoul -> RE: Support (12/29/2012 1:53:22)
Check out my "Guaranteed." thread. You might like it too. :) Nice idea. Personally, supp should increase rage speed and defense ignore on Rage.

NDB -> RE: Support (12/29/2012 18:56:21)
Yeah, I know, it'll increase both.

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