Tactical Mercenaries (Full Version)

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masterbobi -> Tactical Mercenaries (12/30/2012 17:46:00)

OK, so the thing about tactical mercenaries is that it's abilities do not synergise well with each other. I, myself being one, I have to say, it is the most boring class to play just because the variety of build options is limited to a maximum of two viable builds.
So we are going to go through all of it's possible builds and see which is viable.

1.OK, so the first one is probably the most Op one: The 5 focus high field medic tank which ends up destroing you with the infernal android. It os Op because it has the sustain and tankyness which are very hard to face. (I have to say that they win most of their fights using both of their boosters.) But the real thing which needs a nerf is not the resistances or base values of field medic...It is the android bot. Seriously who thought that this will be ballanced in the first place?

SOLUTION:I think the base damage of the robot is good for now but the max damage has to get capped to maximum 15%. This way this lway the enemy might have a chance when facing them in later stages of the battle in 1v1.

2.The Strenght build: So the ''double strike/frenzy/gun/double strike or the fiel commander/double strike/frenzy/gun or strike, or whatever'' builds are actually not that bad but not as viable as other ones.

SOLUTION: I think that field commander should be replaced with blood commander but let it not stack with frenzy. This way the payer has to choose between taking lower str and getting more str points from blood commander or take more str points and ignore blood commander, picking frenzy over it.

3.Dexterity build (stun grenade build): This build has no variety what so ever because the stun grenade is the only skill that scales with dexterity in the TLMs skill tree. It costs allot of energy for being used in tank builds and the stun chance is lower in comparison with other classes.

SOLUTION: I think that smoke screen should be returned to the skill tree. Before you start unsupporting please read on. I suggest that the stat that smoke screen scales off of (technology) should be replaced with support, All the other stat reducing skills (malfunction and intimidate) scale with support. Why not make smoke screen scale with support too? Support builds will not be overpowered with it because it costs allot of energy and wastes a turn since it activates with a blockable attack.

4. Technology builds (5 focus/robot/atom smasher) I think that they are balanced and have nothing to change but I want to pint out here one certain skill-Blood shield.It is incredibly bad, yes it gives valuable resistance but wasting health is such a bad idea I can't even believe they decided that this would be viable.

SOLUTION: My idea is to change the ability like this:
Passive/Active
when you get below 10% hp you get a damage blocking shield that absorbs:
1. 1 hp + 1% of your missing health
2. 2 hp + 2% of your missing health
3. 3 hp + 3% of your missing health
4. 4 hp + 4% of your missing health
5. 5 hp + 5% of your missing health
6. 6 hp + 6% of your missing health
7. 7 hp + 7% of your missing health
8. 8 hp + 8% of your missing health
9. 9 hp + 9% of your missing heath
10. 10 hp + 10% of your missing heath
This affect can appear once per battle.
You can activate it anytime you wish but if you have not activated it yet, when you get below 10% hp it automatically activates.

EXAMPLE: So lets say you have 95 hp and have max blood shield. you get below 10% hp which in this case is 9. You get low to 8 hp and the shield activates, shielding you for 10+10% of your missing health wich is 8 ( 10% of 87(missing health) = 8). So you get a total of 18 health points to spare. If you heal right after they shield will be significantly decreased because you lower your missing health. Note that you can activate this ability at first turn but the bonus shield points from you missing health will be gone since you are at 100% health.

5. The support builds are currently very weak due to the lack of resilliance and health and they have to get extremely high support to deal enough damage and even then they get a maximum of 70 hp, which is a 2shot free win for most other builds.

SOLUTION: Make heal scale with support again but let it scale for 1 hp for every 5 support(before it was 1 for every 4) so it won't be so abusive as it was before.

OK so...Say your opinion about the changes. I may have forgotten a thing or two but I will leave it to you guys to decide

In-game name: Bobi96
PEACE \\//



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (12/30/2012 17:58:41)

I will only go in on one solution:
About the dexterity solution.

Smoke screen, should not return, and expecially not with support.
If it does, the support builds will rule the 1vs1 mode.
It will be: Smoke- Aux - Artillery.
Thats a instant death for everyone since both are unblockable
And if you then make field medic also on support.....
Then support builds are unbeatable...



masterbobi -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (12/30/2012 18:11:30)

just imagine yourself as a support tactical mercenary with my suggestions. You will have low hp and you need to get a ton of energy to do so. you need at least 100 total support stats in order to do high damage. And now imagine that you are fighting a cyber hunter,lets say, if you have a physical bazook, If he goes first he will probably malfunction you and deal high damage with the attack because you have low resistances and very low health because you need energy and support who lack you the opportunity to have decent health and resistances. he deals a 28 damage with the attack which he malfunctioned you with. Next turn whatever energy thing he uses will most likely kill you, unless you heal but then you won't have enough energy to smoke/artilary. and he has 2 turns in which he can kill you, and you cannot do nothing about it, even if you try to aux/artilary, he has the turn advantage so you will die.



Mother1 -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (12/30/2012 18:18:07)

quote:

1.OK, so the first one is probably the most Op one: The 5 focus high field medic tank which ends up destroing you with the infernal android. It os Op because it has the sustain and tankyness which are very hard to face. (I have to say that they win most of their fights using both of their boosters.) But the real thing which needs a nerf is not the resistances or base values of field medic...It is the android bot. Seriously who thought that this will be ballanced in the first place?


With this I can agree with you on this one. The infernal bot IMO was one of the biggest mistakes the epic duel staff have made with bots. They just threw it on us without even testing it. If they did they would have known that it was OP so I can give you that.

quote:

SOLUTION:I think the base damage of the robot is good for now but the max damage has to get capped to maximum 15%. This way this lway the enemy might have a chance when facing them in later stages of the battle in 1v1.


15% percent? Ok are you trying to nerf this bot into the ground where it isn't useful? While it is OP as it is making max damage 15% unless this is a typo is extremely UP.


quote:

2.The Strenght build: So the ''double strike/frenzy/gun/double strike or the fiel commander/double strike/frenzy/gun or strike, or whatever'' builds are actually not that bad but not as viable as other ones.


Ok I see your point partacially.

quote:

SOLUTION: I think that field commander should be replaced with blood commander but let it not stack with frenzy. This way the payer has to choose between taking lower str and getting more str points from blood commander or take more str points and ignore blood commander, picking frenzy over it.


Blood commander was giving to merc's because they were considered UP and didn't have no health or energy regain. TLM already has energy regain and 3 different forms of health regain. SS frenzy, and field medic. Blood commander IMO I believe would OP this class.

quote:

3.Dexterity build (stun grenade build): This build has no variety what so ever because the stun grenade is the only skill that scales with dexterity in the TLMs skill tree. It costs allot of energy for being used in tank builds and the stun chance is lower in comparison with other classes.


Why they put this move on the TLM skill tree I will never know. Maul was a much better move for them to have IMO since there were other moves that scaled with strength. The only benefit of this is that it is unblockable.

quote:

SOLUTION: I think that smoke screen should be returned to the skill tree. Before you start unsupporting please read on. I suggest that the stat that smoke screen scales off of (technology) should be replaced with support, All the other stat reducing skills (malfunction and intimidate) scale with support. Why not make smoke screen scale with support too? Support builds will not be overpowered with it because it costs allot of energy and wastes a turn since it activates with a blockable attack.


I still don't support it but not for that reason. Remember why they took away smoke in the first place? Because Str TLM was OP and they had armor, passive, energy passive, and debuff. It was too much and even by switching this to support it would still OP this class. Also remember switching smoke to support would also affect bounty hunter as well since they to use smoke and would make those Smoke massacre BH more powerful. Remember malf weakens smoke which heals keep BH in check. Moving the buff to support would strength this class which is balanced right now.

quote:

4. Technology builds (5 focus/robot/atom smasher) I think that they are balanced and have nothing to change but I want to pint out here one certain skill-Blood shield.It is incredibly bad, yes it gives valuable resistance but wasting health is such a bad idea I can't even believe they decided that this would be viable.


Blood shield unlike other buffs lasts 5 turns unlike the others to compensate for that. Plus with the class being a tank build it works well with this class.

quote:

SOLUTION: My idea is to change the ability like this:
Passive/Active
when you get below 10% hp you get a damage blocking shield that absorbs:
1. 1 hp + 1% of your missing health
2. 2 hp + 2% of your missing health
3. 3 hp + 3% of your missing health
4. 4 hp + 4% of your missing health
5. 5 hp + 5% of your missing health
6. 6 hp + 6% of your missing health
7. 7 hp + 7% of your missing health
8. 8 hp + 8% of your missing health
9. 9 hp + 9% of your missing heath
10. 10 hp + 10% of your missing heath
This affect can appear once per battle.
You can activate it anytime you wish but if you have not activated it yet, when you get below 10% hp it automatically activates.


Problem what passive would you be taking away for them to have this passive? Giving them another passive would be given them 3 passives which would give TLM an unfair advantage over the other classes.

As for the support thing field medic is going back to support it has been said quite a few times by trans, Trizz and a few others who speak with the staff on twitter.



Ranloth -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (12/30/2012 18:18:25)

Blood Commander will not be given to TLMs at all, it was said before few times, even when the skill itself came out. BC is for Mercs, FC is for TLMs. You have Frenzy.
Smoke will NOT be given back to TLMs either. Each class can have 2 of these: passive Armor, EP or HP regen, debuff. TLMs has Armor and EP regen, done. Ashari said the same thing and it was either Smoke leaving or Reroute back then.
Heal WILL scale back, there was a thread about it yesterday + it was said by the Devs that plan is to make it scaled again. You should always browse through old threads to see if the suggestion wasn't posted already.



Scyze -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (12/30/2012 20:51:02)

The only tank build that is OP is the BM's version. We have Frenzy and only regain Health every 3-4 turns. Even though you say tank TLMs are OP, they're not. You can easily counter them. Just keep draining their Energy. We cannot gain HP like BMs so if you cut out our EP, you can beat us. Talking more about "tanks", what about BMs? They are on the leader board with 95% win ratio. What about them? They don't have to heal that much...

TLM skills go well together. If you don't know how to use them then you'll think they don't. I see you are a TLM but they're not supposed to be an attacking class by looking at them. I changed to Mercenary and they were terrible.
TLMs do best in a 2v2 or 2v1 battle. I can even win in a 2v1 scenario in a 2v2 match from the start.

If you don't like TLM, you have the option to switch. Tank builds are fun and hasn't gotten boring for me for over 3000 battles. There's a lot of combinations you can use. Your solutions are also weird. They will make the Class OP. There was a reason to why Smoke Screen or Maul was removed. They do fine right now and there's no point changing them.



Neo Flare -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (12/31/2012 7:30:50)

quote:

The only tank build that is OP is the BM's version.


Not true.

Bm's may be OP with tanks builds but tlms are also in that category as bm lacks the ability to regain energy so we cant keep healing unlike tlm's who keep spamming heal ,2 boosters.frenzy and rage bot kind of justifies for not having bloodlust and even to make tlm worse it can remove energy and gain it to keep it heal looping and preventing the other class to do the same or use their attack moves.



Scyze -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (12/31/2012 20:07:45)

But BMs don't have to heal due to their Blood Lust. You can Rage your Infernal Android and do 60 damage and regain 14 HP. We as TLMs cannot do so. You can cut out our Energy Supply and that prevents us from doing so. To be honest, I don't think TLMs are that much OP as much as BMs. We can heal 25 HP for 2 turns and then use Frenzy but frenzy can be blocked.
You can keep on healing as well. Just keep two Energy Boosters and you don't have to worry about healing with boosters. We can't get HP back as much as BM. You probably already know that. Yes we can remove Energy but that can be blocked and most of the time, you will have wasted the turn if your opponent has an Energy Booster equipped.

You don't lack on regaining Energy that much. You have the choice of using Reflex Boost and gaining 15% of the damage done but you also have the chance of blocking. If you can keep doing a good amount of damage (25) per turn, you will beat TLMs. Most TLMs have 95 HP and you guys can keep regaining HP without using much Energy. After the TLMs heal, you can attack. Most have Level 7 Field Medic and that's 51 HP. You can do attack well over 50 damage in just 3 turns. Yes, we can spam heal, but there's a limit. We can heal unlimited amount of times but it requires your opponent to attack you. If you're a cleaver opponent, you will use your weakest attacks and then your strongest attack and kill TLMs just before they have enough Energy. After a certain point, you can do normal damages and then rage your Bot and beat TLMs but whenever TLMs heal, BMs attack. You gain HP and also, rage. Whenever I heal, I see BMs get back 5-10 HP and keep using rage. By the time I have rage, BMs will usually (any build) have done 2 rage attacks.

I'm not saying this because I'm a TLM but it is true that TLMs don't have a skill that will add on stats like Reflex Boost that is useful. If we use Blood Shield, there's a cost of HP. If we do so, BMs can use their Physical attacks. Its unfair to me but TLMs most of the time, do Juggernaut battles. Look at BMs, they can be found on 1v1 a lot of the time. A lot of BMs do not heal. Why? Because they have BL which just gives them HP. If you really need HP, you can use ranged attacks and not even think about blocks and not being able to use the SKill for the next few turns. We cannot reduce stats of our opponents. We don't have Skills that boost performance. We have a chance of us not being able to use Frenzy or Field Medic if your opponent uses the Pyro Fly's Speical. How often do you find Tank TLMs running around in 1v1 battles? How many TLMs do you see on the leader board for 1v1? They are rare. Just one win takes a long time. Especially if it is against tank TLMs. Look at BMs, who ever goes first, will most of the time win. Their battles are short with a high chance of winning. I have never seen a BM that hasn't gotten over 90% win rate for the current day. Yes, TLMs also get over 90% but it takes a long time. If you are desperate for wins, you can just leave the Battle knowing that you won't win.



Warmaker04 -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (1/2/2013 2:46:04)

Yeah but when BH or CH is battling a tactical or merc they will be fast killed both. But merc isnt the underpowered class cause you have :
Ittimidate, Blood commander, * berserker * , strong hybrid, and rage gain and stun.
If Mercenary is fighting Tactical Mercenary then the fight * Will * be interesting, but if TLM is fighting BH or CH hes pretty much finished on my point cause the tlm will just block and after their strong massarces and smoke/malf the fight will be pretty done.

Well ask the bountyes they are just copying this same build :
lvl 7 smoke, lvl 10 blood lust, lvl 7 mass and lvl 7 shadow art.

Cant you BHs create some another build? Its too easy with this.

And i can agree with your point Neos because blood mages have very high change in winning against cybers,mercs,techmages,tactical mercs.
Only class which they can lose is the BH, and it happens too often.

We are still wondering anyway when omega will come, i hope they dont delay it again.



Scyze -> RE: Tactical Mercenaries (1/2/2013 3:11:22)

What do you mean fast kill? Bounty Hunters and Cyber Hunters take a long time to kill if they are a Strength based with high health. My battles against them go over 10 rounds. Cyber Hunters have Plasma Armor. If it is Merc vs TLM, Merc will most of the time win if they have Berzerker. Even if it is against tank builds. You can use it when you have rage. The only reason why I lose to BMs is because they crit a lot in battles.
The two Mercenary Classes only do good with a tank build. Adrenaline isn't that useful. I had it. Maul can be blocked.

Good point about BHs with the same build. Everytime you can notice the same charisticts between the others.
I wasted 4000 Varium in one day switching between classes. BH to TLM to Merc to TLM.



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