RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (Full Version)

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Mother1 -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/2/2013 4:15:10)

@ Hun

Passives add planning to the game and make things more interesting. Replacing passives with attacks skills IMO would make the game more brainless. Every skill passive on the skill tree has a purpose and help maintain balance one way or another even shadow arts which some find either worthless because it is luck based, or OP for the same thing.

@ lord

So it still give the hunter class a higher chance to block then other classes even if it is luck based. I know that you don't like a lot of luck based things however that doesn't make it anyless of a passive then bloodlust, Reroute or Mineral armor. It passively increase block chance as well as up the chance of stun/plamsa grenade stunning the opponent just like Mineral armor ups Defense, Reroute give back energy, and Bloodlust giving back health.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/2/2013 14:33:25)

Max Shadow Arts: 5% Extra Block, 5% Extra Deflect, 10% Extra Stun.

Problem Solved.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/2/2013 15:16:50)

Mother1, replacing passive skills with attack skills would not make the game like Epic Duel brainless but will make the Duel Epic and you would have to use an attack skill at the right time or you waste energy. The attack skills have cool downs and warmup that could be applied to the new awesome skill, Claw Assault. Passives do add planning to the game staff meetings with a white board do and passives takes up points and makes things boring.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/2/2013 19:44:14)

@Hun Kingq

Passives don't make things boring. They're an important tool for players who like to use low energy and low level skills. Each class needs two passives to put stat points into if they want to use such a conservative, energy efficient build. If I didn't have two passives I'd often end up putting my stat points somewhere useless.



KEzAx -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 2:27:30)

@Drianx
quote:

- deadly aim is useless when you do not use the sidearm
- mineral armor is useless when you are attacked with energy weapons

Really? who would have a deadly aim without side arm



arthropleura -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 3:41:53)

@above
Keyword in your quote on the sidearms: use, USE, USE
two turn cool down, remember?



Striker44 -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 4:48:26)

In fact S.A was made for bountys who have smoke+reflex boost that makes it more effective that cybers S.A



RageSoul -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 6:20:29)

quote:

So it still give the hunter class a higher chance to block then other classes even if it is luck based. I know that you don't like a lot of luck based things however that doesn't make it anyless of a passive then bloodlust, Reroute or Mineral armor. It passively increase block chance as well as up the chance of stun/plamsa grenade stunning the opponent just like Mineral armor ups Defense, Reroute give back energy, and Bloodlust giving back health.

The thing is , most likely it won't help me , and everyone else . Not that i'm saying "it won't help/won't be equal" because of my luck , but because of ..... um , lemme just explain it .

I have an interesting illustration here :

- <------O------> +

See that drawing ? I'll explain what it composes of :
Left - Negative : where Passives become UP at certain sitches .
Right - Positive : where Passives become too useful / greater at some sitches .
Big circle : a.k.a equilibrium .

Now what am i saying here ? Look at the other passives : they give you great help in battles ( Right ) but there are times it's easily countered ( Left ) , and you know where they're gonna result ? They go in-between ( balanced ) . But luck , however , won't really help anyone because it's either your on the left ( when it doesn't go haywire ) or on the right ( when the RNG had a bad mood on ya )but never in-between .



kosmo -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 16:09:38)

Dont u like SA? dont use them, spend more points on shields, smoke, emp and massacre; ur bh is still gonna be great. I onestly dont think SA are usless, they really can help u a lot, even if they dont give u an advange against all build and classes.



Yo son -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 19:59:12)

shadow arts is both useless and equally annoying as well.



the final hour -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 20:32:42)

Shadow arts DOES NOT need buffing if anything nerfing thats debateable but certainly not buffing seriously the ammount of times ive lost a fight through some1 with halve if not a 3rd of my dex blocking me just becos of shadow just pile the points into strengh a few in smoke max shadow bang they have a reasonable chnc of blocking even with low dex i think if they made it give 20% at level 10 90% of the game would be bhes and ches be serious .



Mother1 -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/3/2013 21:12:14)

@ the final hour

You just proved that even though it is luck based that this passive does work. However, for you problem why not just use unblockable moves to get around this, and use melee only when you have to?



the final hour -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/5/2013 9:34:05)

@Mother1

I do that obvioualy but that gives them a advantage as its alot more riskkier fr me to use anything that can be blocked . and lets not forget when your talking about making it mre powerful not builds i personally use but what happens to the mercs where most of their skill tree is blockable double strike atom smasher beserker etc... and can ya imagine a bh or ch tank build with shadow giving 20% it wouldnt take much to get to the block cap



Mother1 -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/5/2013 9:53:20)

@ the final hour

Believe it or not what you are talking about is actually balance even with this passive. Balance is like ranger hunter bear (or rock paper scissors) and Shadow arts is just that. It works better against melee type classes such as the merc class, but doesn't work so well against the mage class which are casters. Meaning that it has it's strength's and weakness.

A lot of things in this game are more balanced then what people think, yet when they are on the losing end of the rock paper scissors they complain about it until it is nerfed even when it isn't OP. I know you noticed people saying shadows are is worthless but at the same time other's say it is OP? Well as you saw with lord's drawing of shadow art it is in the center which means it is balanced.



the final hour -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/5/2013 10:46:36)

@ mother1

I'm not trying to say SA should be nerfed simply that it shouldnt be buffed out of the two imho theirs more of a argument for a nerf then a buff .

And with regards to the balance comment im all fr balance but i dnt see why a skill should make it dangerous to use certain moves and risk zero dmg especially if they are costing u ep .

And with regards to caster mages lol i dnt think ive ever faced a caster where i havent owned them regardless of my build be them varium or non varium personally i think casters r a suicidal build .



Remorse -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/5/2013 10:56:44)

^ it doesn't need a Nerf or a buff,


It needs a complete change, WHY? because the passive can be both too good and completely useless depending on its effect.


It should be changed to something more reliable and less variable effects.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/5/2013 16:10:14)

Replace the Cyber Hunter Shadow Arts with Claw Assault, http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=20969678



Midnightsoul -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/5/2013 17:08:25)

I personally liked the original Shadow Arts.

+10% block, deflect, and stun at MAX.



Stabilis -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/5/2013 17:28:55)

Scrap Shadow Arts. Correction. I mean crap Shadow Arts.

When you have a set of passive skills, you balance them by using equality (or a skills equilibrium in this situation). That means if 5 classes have each 2 passive skills that are non-luck, the 6th class must have 2 passive skills that are non-luck. Because you cannot balance classes by comparing 2 skills of different types without statistical proof in the battle records. A luck and non-luck passive together are never equal to a non-luck and non-luck passive together, because even if the "average" result from a luck passive plus a non-luck passive were equal, on frequency, that luck passive is going to dip and jump in the success rate axis... off balancing the equilibrium either extremely faulty or very successful. If you were to minimize the fluctuations of the luck passive's success rate, you are practically changing it into a non-luck passive... and this is why Shadow Arts should be remade into a non-luck passive...

OR change Reroute, Bloodlust, Mineral/Hybrid/Plasma Armor, Deadly Aim, Adrenaline all into luck passives.

So which 1 of the 2 choices will it be?



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/7/2013 15:20:45)

Shadow arts should be 10% def ignore only for strike. All players have average 32-40 armor which makes 1 strike deal +3-4 dmg more. 3 strike will be equal to 9-12 more dmg which is equal to Deadly Aim.

OR

Make it exactly like deadly aim for primary. For +35 wep 10 % shadow art will give +4 dmg only for strike which is same with 10 lvl deadly aim

So Shadow Arts will be Deadly aim for primary. It will be also blockable unlike deadly aim.



Remorse -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/7/2013 15:37:57)

^ BH used to have a similar thing it was far to OPED.

The defense version is a lot better.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/7/2013 15:44:07)

^

But this skill is only for strike, i dont see any difference with Deadly Aim.10 lvl Deadly Aim gives +10 dmg in every 3 turn and the changed 10 lvl SA will give +12 dmg in 3 turn.

Its also hard to max it for str builds so they wont use it at max. 6-7 lvl SA will give +9 dmg in 3 turn.

* It is also useless if you dont use strike * trollface*



Remorse -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/7/2013 16:34:13)

because it stacks with massacre.

And cheap-shot, and smoke, and any skill strike also gets a bonus. and STR BH are bad enough.



Mother1 -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/7/2013 16:57:22)

@ OP

You really want to bring back a passive that is something like diamond claws? From what I heard it OP the hunter class and the last thing we need is anything like that again. Everyone would just jump to the hunter class, and we would have strength BH and CH running around all over the place.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Shadow Arts useless passive (1/7/2013 17:46:17)

I said ONLY FOR STRIKE it will not stack with massacre, cheapshot or any other primary based skill.

Diamond blades probably stack with skills this will not stack with any skill. DA gives +10 unblockable dmg in every 3 turn with only 1 move. SA will give +4 dmg blockable in every strike. So you need to use 3 strikes to have +12 dmg.(3 seperate strikes means 3 seperate block chance)

Also it will still have support requirement which makes it not possible to use it at 10 lvl for str BH. Str BH will use it at 6-7 lvl that gives +3 dmg every strike which makes +9 dmg(less than DA).



If you go for defense SA you need to increase the ratio. I will explain it shortly.
1)Blocks only 10% physical dmg:
If your opponent deal 100 dmg everytime he uses a physical attack (which is not possible) 100x10% = 10 blocked dmg which is equal to mineral armor. Less than 100 dmg will make SA weaker than mineral armor

2)Blocks both Physical and energy dmg:
In this case your opponent should deal 50 dmg (which is possible) to make SA equal to Hybrid Armor. But the problem with this case is CH. CH already have plasma armor which gives +10 res. With the new SA it will be super tank.



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