RE: Dage Guns (Full Version)

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RageSoul -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 6:48:50)

@Mother
Only problem is , more points lost to HP = most likely be easily crushed by luck .




Mother1 -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 7:01:00)

@ lord

Luck with this weapon depending on it is 1 in 4. Crit deflection meaning the attack does slightly less then a normal attack, deflection where it does 1/2 the damage, a normal attack, and a crit. I am guess you are worried about this weapon scoring a crit on someone.

You have to remember when omega comes the whole system will be overhauled meaning luck will change as well. Plus even if it does crit it won't do nearly a much damage as it is now. I remember the staff saying that when omega comes we will be working with 1/3 of the stats we have now. Plus with everyone being on or close to equal footing (since there will be no more enhancements and very few stat advantages between players) it won't be like it is now.

I can understand you being worried about luck because right now even though I don't mind it, it is crazy. I remember having bad luck with this weapon when I used it with rage only for both of my opponents to deflect. That was luck right there but not bad for my opponents.




Xendran -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 7:38:49)

No, my issue is that it's able to be used in an extremely exploitative manner. It's actually the worst on blood mages and tech mages (TM is more abusive with it than BH is, actually)




Mother1 -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 8:06:32)

So it is because they have deadly aim that you are complaining about this weapon?

Then why not work with Deadly aim if you think it makes this weapon OP instead of trying to nerf something that isn't OP into the ground?




Xendran -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 8:18:31)

Because it's the weapon itself that is the issue.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 8:27:18)

quote:

I don't think you know who you're talking to. I want almost everythign i do in this game to be nerfed, because almost everything i do in this game is overpowered.


So in other words you got prob with everything ..... and some one who got prob with everything cannot really be helped ....

you just feel "unbalanced" all alone ..




Xendran -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 8:44:34)

Do not attempt to derail a thread with pseudo-insults.
I did not say i have a problem with everything, i said that the things i do in the game are overpowered, because breaking games is what i do.

It's not my problem if you completely misinterpret that, so don't attempt to make it a problem for me by attempting to flame in a way that seems 'innocent' to circumvent any sort of authority action.

And to expand @mother1:

If one single gun causes an issue when uced in a certain way, you do not nerf some random gun related skill.
Besides, i'm working on a way to fix dage guns, in a way that actually fixes the rage issue.


EDIT: I'm actually very pleased with how it turned out, i'm going to upload a chart of it soon.




Mother1 -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 9:02:43)

@ xendran

The weapon only does 85% damage to 2 people (which is the same as any multi attack) and 100% damage with 1 person. It isn't OP in the least yet because of the classes that have deadly aim that can boost the power of this weapon you want this weapon nerfed? It isn't fair in the least to nerf something that is balanced just because one class of group has an advantage with it. That is why I said deal with the problem that is causing the what you believe is OP not make it so the weapon which is balanced and fair weak to the point where no one can get decent use out of it. Also If anything in the game is used correctly it has potential for high damage such as the infernal android's special with rage, massacre when the opponent is smoked or malf with the correct weapon etc.





Xendran -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 9:08:37)

It has nothing to do with deadly aim specifically, just the actual scaling of these guns with damage.
You have zero idea what my new forumla is, so you have absolutely no notion of whether or not it is going to nerf it into the ground.

Hint: If you have that 15 + 35 damage, it's going to be the exact same power as it is currently.

It's not the +10 from deadly aim, it's ANYBODY that uses it with strength gets ridiculous scaling. I've found a way to make it do what it was actually meant to do, the problem with spreadfire is that the *.85 is happening before defence and resist, causing it to suck at low power but be ridiculously good at high power.

The problem is the *.85 multipliers location, not the actual strength stat behind it. It just happens that the location of the multiplier causes strength to overpower the weapon. I think you'll be pleased with my fix once you see the actual damage numbers.




Mother1 -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 9:26:11)

@ Xendran

You have been jumping all over the place with your complaints so far. First you said nerf the weapons when they were doing 2 vs 2 damage. Which everyone came and disagreed with you for it. Then your reason for it was because of the mage class which has deadly aim to power up sidearms for your nerf which one again is saying "one class has an advantage with the weapons so left's nerf the weapon for all classes that used it which isn't balanced. Now it seems that you are upset about the extra damage that is added to the weapon do to strength so instead of dealing with the problem that you feel is unfair you want to affect all builds that aren't abusing this instead of targeting the abusers.

It isn't right, and it isn't the way to go. We have had many nerfs as it is because of one type of build abusing something be it strength with BM (hence the fireball nerf and berzerker being switch to bludgeon) Tech abuse ( causing plasma rain to be switch to dex instead of tech) to even heal looping CH. (which cause static's nerf)

Also believe it or not all sidearms follow the same formula in 1 vs 1 battle even this one. This one however does 85% in two vs two and even with deadly aim unless you are abusing strength you won't get much damage out of it. So with all your reasoning without this formula you are talking about it sounds like you want to nerf a balanced weapon because one type of build can abuse it instead of just fixing the abuser which will cause more harm then good.




Xendran -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 9:29:10)

1. Deadly aim only amplifies it, it is not the cause, nor did i ever state it was, i simply stated the classes that it is the WORST with. This can be done with any class.
2. You have no idea what my new formula is, so i'm going to post it now that i've done all of the comparisons.

Also, i fixed it by simply causing the guns to scale properly, which they currently do not. I believe that the way these guns scale so extremely was actually unintentional by the developers.

Here are the comparison charts. It will give you an idea of how absurdly high the scaling factor is by having the *.85 applying before def/res as opposed to simply calculating damage as normal and then cutting it in half.

VERSUS 35 (30 +5) DEFENCE | RESISTANCE

Standard
[[15 + 35]]

(50 - 35)/2      =  8 On Both {16}
(50 * 0.85) - 35 =  8 on Both {16}

[[20 + 35]]

(55 - 35)/2      =  10 on Both {20}
(55 * 0.85) - 35 =  12 on Both {24}

[[20 + 35 + 10]]

(65 - 35)/2      =  15 on Both {30}
(65 * 0.85) - 35 =  21 on Both {42}

[[30 + 35 + 10]]

(75 - 35)/2      =  20 on Both {40}
(75 * 0.85) - 35 =  29 on Both {58}



Rage
[[15 + 35]]

(50 - 20)/2      = 15 On Both {30}
(50 * 0.85) - 20 = 21 on Both {42}

[[20 + 35]]

(55 - 20)/2      = 18 on Both {36}
(55 * 0.85) - 20 = 27 on Both {54}

[[20 + 35 + 10]]

(65 - 20)/2      = 23 on Both {46}
(65 * 0.85) - 20 = 36 on Both {72}

[[30 + 35 + 10]]

(75 - 20)/2      = 28 on Both {56}
(75 * 0.85) - 20 = 44 on Both {88}



VERSUS 35 (30 +5) DEFENCE | RESISTANCE While Debuffed (Average of -9 Defence | Resistance)



Standard

[[15 + 35]]

(50 - 26)/2      =   12 On Both {24}
(50 * 0.85) - 26 =   17 on Both {34}

[[20 + 35]]

(55 - 26)/2      =   15 on Both {30}
(55 * 0.85) - 26 =   21 on Both {42}

[[20 + 35 + 10]]

(65 - 26)/2      =   20 on Both {40}
(65 * 0.85) - 26 =   30 on Both {60}

[[30 + 35 + 10]]

(75 - 26)/2      =   25 on Both {50}
(75 * 0.85) - 26 =   38 on Both {76}



Rage

[[15 + 35]]

(50 - 14)/2      =  18 On Both {36}
(50 * 0.85) - 14 =  29 on Both {58}

[[20 + 35]]

(55 - 14)/2      =  21 on Both {42}
(55 * 0.85) - 14 =  33 on Both {66}

[[20 + 35 + 10]]

(65 - 14)/2      =  26 on Both {52}
(65 * 0.85) - 14 =  42 on Both {84}

[[30 + 35 + 10]]

(75 - 14)/2      =  31 on Both {62}
(75 * 0.85) - 14 =  50 on Both {100}


^ That last one is the most aggregious. The gun is dealing nearly double the damage that i believe the developers intended it to be dealing.
Also, if your strength is too low, you shouldn't even be using this gun. As you can see though, at 15+35, it's identical, and simply has a lesser scale.
At damages below 15+35 it's actually slightly more powerful, but soon you'll just hit the point where' youre goign to hit double threes with both either formula anyway.

EDIT: Rage numbers fixed.




SouL Prisoner -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 9:49:08)

quote:

I want almost everythign i do in this game to be nerfed, because almost everything i do in this game is overpowered.




Seriously??? you still blame me?? you want everything to be nerfed .... do you think its possible??

And i'm not trying to accuse you or something, just putting a straightforward answer to what you have stated :)




Xendran -> RE: Dage Guns (1/3/2013 9:58:17)

No, i said everythign that i do. I do not use builds that are bad, weak, average, good or even great. I *only* use and create builds that are exploitative and overpowered.
If you are going to twist my words, then do not respond as continued responses in such a manner are very easily considered either spam or an attempt to get me to lash out at you, both of which are not good etiquette on a forum meant for discussion.

Not to mention the fact that it is completely off topic and irelevant.




The Joker X -> RE: Dage Guns (1/4/2013 20:39:12)

Okay it's a special I understand, but it's still considered a skill. Couldn't another way to fix it be to add an energy requirement? Maybe just an energy req on rage turns? Nothing big though, maybe five to ten energy points but this would still somewhat balance the damage dealt by this gun.




13891389aaaaa -> RE: Dage Guns (1/7/2013 18:11:37)

Wouldn't simply putting 85% on 35 dmg instead of 35+10 be enough?




Mother1 -> RE: Dage Guns (1/7/2013 18:50:19)

@ 13891389

Nope that would be a hard nerf. Even with deadly aim you would barely do anything. That is the damage before applying defenses. Once you apply defenses that damage wouldn't be anything.




13891389aaaaa -> RE: Dage Guns (1/8/2013 4:56:04)

Mother are you kidding me? Only mage classes have deadly aim -.-




Xendran -> RE: Dage Guns (1/8/2013 9:11:20)

My method with the 0.5 multiplier fixes them.




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