Slight str nerf (Full Version)

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arthropleura -> Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 4:41:42)

Contrary to support str decreases the gain of rage so they do not gain more than support?



Remorse -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 5:36:51)

Supported!

Great idea.



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 9:17:44)

Not supported due to tank builds, when I am a BH, I find myself hitting 10s with 100+ strength. It would impossible to combat a tank like that without rage, and is still very hard with rage due to Infernal Android.



Remorse -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 9:23:45)

STR builds basically rage every 2 dam turns agiasnt tanks,


If that isn't enough then you would have to invest in support.


This is a great idea.


plus its not stopping rage rage it would probably only delay a STR build rage say 1 turn.

When you consider the fact they have basically no support yet rage twice as fast as someone with decent support hen this is completely fair.



Mother1 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 9:38:35)

@ remorse while rage does improve with support you won't get any decent rage unless you do just that attack. it doesn't make sense to nerf rage with strength since you need to attack in order to get it. I will admit strength needs a nerf but with rage? Not a good way to go a better way to nerf strength would have been to reduce the way it progresses.

This idea wouldn't be fair to those builds that use decent support and aren't abusing strength since having strength would be a liability.



arthropleura -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 9:53:53)

@mother: I was thinking it would work like agility, over 75 and the reductions start or something



rayniedays56 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 9:59:11)

I'm sorry. Could you reword this or help me figure out what you are saying? I is confused :/



Remorse -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 10:51:31)

Il reword it,


It doesn't reduce rage every STR attack if that is what you guys are thinking.


What it does is work in oppisite to support's rage giving bonus.



You know how support gives bonus rage increase, the more you have the quicker you get rage.

Well this suggestion is meaning the more STR you have the less rage giving bonus you get.


BUT keep in mind unlike the support bonus this is based off the difference between your's and your opponents STR meaning STR will only lower the rage rate IF your partner has less STR then you.

So basically it counter STR builds from getting as frequent rages if you have less STR.

But this counter will probably only delay rage from STR build by 1 turn if at all.

So you STR build fanatics out their dont just stright out dislike this idea when its trying to fix the unfair fact STR builds rage too fast.



Mother1 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 10:57:27)

@ remorse

If it is the way you said it is even more of a reason for me not to support it. Say if you have decent support and have decent but not abusive strength. Your idea would be hurting that player as well and as I stated would make having strength a liability. While I agree strength needs a nerf make you rage slower with more strength is logical to be honest since you need to attack to gain rage and believe it or not there are more strength based moves in the game then any other stat moves.

I still think nerfing the way strength progresses would be a better idea honestly.

@ OP

Your idea sounds a bit better since it wouldn't make having strength at all a liability to those not abusing it. However at the same time bring back the agility affect? I am iffy on that one.



Remorse -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 11:02:02)

^

It doesnt negatively effect those people at all in most cases.


The only time rage bonus is lowered by STR is when you have more STR then your opponent, and it is calculated by the diffrence between STR amounts, so if you have a small amount more STR then your oponent you will only have a very small negative rage gain bonus.

You say it would hurt those with average STR and support but if they have average STR then the majority of the people they verse would have similar to higher STR amounts, which means they get none of the negative rage gain bonus.



Plus this would help lower level since they have less stats overall which means they are likely to have less STR which means their opponent have the negative rage gain bonus, giving them a better chance in battle.



kosmo -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 12:15:17)

I think u guys r missing the point here. The real problem is when a bm or a bh gets rage after 2-3 turns, but that has nothing to do whit str, its a bloodlust problem, if ur opponent has this passive he will get more hp and that means that u r gonna need 2 take more dmg from him, so he gets more rage. did u ever sow a only str mage or a only str ch? well, they dont rage so fast cause they have less dmg taken away



arthropleura -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 20:11:40)

Blah people, ill rephrase it

Similar to agility, after your str goes over a certain point your rage gain is decreased by a %
Nothing to do with enemy's str .____.
This way ppl with lower str won't have the nerf

Edit: because right now str builds are capable of sustaining a constant high damage level and it spikes even higher during rage. This would help a bit



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 21:57:31)

quote:

STR builds basically rage every 2 dam turns agiasnt tanks,


If that isn't enough then you would have to invest in support.


This is a great idea.


plus its not stopping rage rage it would probably only delay a STR build rage say 1 turn.

When you consider the fact they have basically no support yet rage twice as fast as someone with decent support hen this is completely fair.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/5/2013 9:24:53 >

First of all, most strength builds I've encountered have 40+ supp, not "no support". Rage is meant to increase faster the less damage you deal to counter, say, overpowered IA builds. It's odd that I can easily defeat many strength builds yet there is still so much complaining. You have to adapt to the current situation before you can complain about it.



Waxor9001 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 22:07:57)

Unsupported, str is already underpowered.



arthropleura -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/5/2013 22:25:12)

@above: lol? That cracked my ribs..
@Prince of Shadows: I don't really have too much trouble with them, but their rage gain compared with support is ridiculous.
Edit: @waxor: you seem experienced. How can str be UP? O_o



kosmo -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/6/2013 13:35:38)

u can rage on 3rd turn even if u hit 10 and u get hitted 40 each turn, rage is not only affected by the dmg u deal. the more hp u loose the more u rage, that is a blodlust problem, the guys who rage faster r bm and bh 4 that reason, even focus builds not only strenght.

Probably the most of u guys cant understend me (even coz i have some english problems) so ill try 2 explain u y bloodlust improoves rage and other passive dont.
reruote and SA edoesnt effect rage at all(4 obious reasons), haibrid, plasma and mineral armor deprooves rage(giving u higher defences and making u more tank, enemy deals less dmg and u get less rage) bloodlust insted gives u alwaise a defence option but improoves rage( ex. u r a bh/bm whit 140 hp, after 3 turns ur enemy deals a huge 100 dmg off u, but tnx ur bloodlust u still gonna have 80-90 hp so u did got a sort of defence from it, but still, that doesnt make u a tank and u end up raging before ur opponent even if u went 2nd(unless he has bloodlust 2). bloodlust shouldent effect rage in some way...(im a bm)



Waxor9001 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/6/2013 15:40:37)

@arthropleura:The reason why I said strength is UP is because it only raise 2 things, primary and gun damage, while all other stats have at least 3 effects.



arthropleura -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/6/2013 17:48:10)

@kosmo... Virtually incomprehensible sorry. Str gains rage fast cos it overlaps the enemy's armor
@waxor: not to mention half the skills in the skill trees, and of the two free attacks you mentioned, one is oft buffed by deadly aim while the other provides a constant, free powerful attack, if not blockable



King Helios -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/6/2013 18:13:11)

Translated kosmo's to...
quote:

You can rage on 3rd turn even if you hit 10 and you get hit 40 damage each turn, rage is not only affected by the dmg u deal. the more hp you lose the more you rage, that is a bloodlust problem, the guys who rage faster are Blood Mage and Bounty Hunter for that reason, even focus builds not only strength.

I'll try 2 explain to you why bloodlust improves rage and other passives don't.
Reroute and SA don't affect rage at all (for obvious reasons), hybrid, plasma and mineral armors deprive rage (giving u higher defences and making u more of a tank, enemy deals less dmg and u get less rage) bloodlust instead gives you a defence option but improves rage (ex. u r a bh/bm with 140 hp, after 3 turns ur enemy deals a huge 100 dmg off u, but thanks to your bloodlust you are still gonna have 80-90 hp so u did got a sort of defence from it, but still, that doesn't make you a tank and you end up raging before your opponent even if you went 2nd (unless he has bloodlust too). Bloodlust shouldn't affect rage in some way...(I'm a Blood Mage)



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/6/2013 20:37:00)

BL doesn't effect rage at all. Honestly, you people are just asking the devs to nerf BHs because you're not thinking of ways to beat them (if they have "no support, you should be going first a bit). I am a TM and out damage them with a caster build, as we said on EDF: Adapt or die.



Mother1 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/6/2013 21:44:10)

@ ED

That is because The TM class is the major bane to BH. I played as a non caster mage and like you I was beating them left and right. I do have to agree with you on BL though. It doesn't give rage only health. Plus to be honest I think that is why most complain more then imbalance, but because they can't beat them.




Giras Wolfe -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/6/2013 23:09:37)

Rage is the only way strength builds can defeat tank builds. Its already hard enough for strength builds to beat tank builds. Strength builds are a legitimate strategy. You sacrifice reliability and control over the battle for a faster win rate. Strength builds call for tough, strategic decisions just as much as any other build. There's no reason it should be impossible for strength builds to defeat tanks. And that's exactly what this proposed "slight" nerf would do.

100% not supported.



rayniedays56 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/7/2013 2:36:39)

@above

Sure I can agree with that, but everyone is tired of is someone who has a lot more support than a strength build AND attacks doesn't gain as much rage as the strength build.


Example:

I was a Support crazed TM (28-34) I just attacked and attacked and attacked. Maybe 2 blocks on the strength build, but they also got in a deflect and block...


Wait for it...


They rage first with 13-16 aux damage, which is a LOT less support.


What I THINK this topic is about is reducing the amount of rage strength builds get when attacking NON tank players.



arthropleura -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/7/2013 2:42:36)

Really <snip> Please no foul language. Scakk? Everyone said str was OP so I come up with a solution, then suddenly they're the underdogs?
MAKE UP YOUR MIND PEOPLE
Overall I don't rly care but seeing them rage faster than supp builds is agonizing



Mother1 -> RE: Slight str nerf (1/7/2013 2:55:28)

@ Arthropleura

I see support build rage at turn three without blocks, or deflections, especially Support mercs so depending on the support build it may sometimes rage faster then a strength build. However you are out of luck if said strength build get's a block deflection or crit.



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