Skills (Full Version)

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Midnightsoul -> Skills (1/12/2013 16:26:46)

Hi, most of you are pretty sure how unecessary weapon requirements on some certain skills are should be changed and some that might need a requirement.
This is a minor thread I want to make so that way classes can have the right amount of synergy and flexibility in it.
Some other moves are overpowered like massacre, double strike, and bludgeon. Some of them are too efficient or too strong.

I would like to start off with Frenzy.
I think it should not have a weapon requirement because TLM's are not considered OP'ed anymore and it's uneccesary.

Venom strike does not need a wrist blade requirement.

Massacre needs lower dmg increase per skill lvl.

What are some skills in your mind you would like to change?



Stabilis -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 16:50:26)

I also believe that Massacre needs a restructuring. Surgical Strike and Supercharge are balanced, right? Massacre has this grey structure that causes it to be very... relative. That is to say, it is not a very controllable fixed set of numbers. This is because it has 2 influential factors, Strength damage and Primary damage, and takes the product of the sum of those numbers.

It is true, that you can balance Massacre's % rates to be equal in damage to Supercharge or Surgical Strike at max level at the same number of stats, but the problem is scaling by level for Massacre. Today, for example SuperCharge might improve by 1 damage every 4 or 5 Technology which is about 1 level. Massacre might improve by 2 damage every 4 or 5 or 6 for hulks in Strength and by each damage point on the Primary weapon. THEN you multiply those 2 by Massacre. No wonder someone would complain it is underpowered or overpowered, it has a MASSIVE range.

This is why it would be easier to judge it by a fixed rate in Strength like the other 2 ultimate skills.



Xendran -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 16:58:06)

Massacre does not get multiplied by your strength range, only your weapon damage.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 17:04:18)

^I mean as in the percentages on them for each skill level. The multiplier is what I want decreased, not the way it's improved by.

I also miss using Static Charge for Cyber Hunter. Like now, I can't use it as well anymore because ppl complained it was OP'ed due to emp looping. I would be happy if the energy regen ignores 50% of defenses. So sad still v.v
Or...
Perhaps it can just be based from the weapon dmg and not primary dmg.



Stabilis -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 17:08:41)

Did Massacre get that nerf? I did not notice.



Xendran -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 17:11:01)

I was just correcting depressed. Massacre is too powerful at low levels even after being nerfed four (five?) times, i agree.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 17:28:08)

@Xendran
Oh, my bad, understood. I think it should scale all the way by like 6% per skill lvl.





ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 19:13:23)

Massacre does not need a nerf, it is very easy to counter 85% of these builds, the rest require a little luck.



Xendran -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 19:30:45)

quote:

Massacre does not need a nerf


Except for the fact that it outdoes the other ultimates at max level, and outdoes them even more the lower you get in skill level, with LESS (i did a test of 80 tech vs 67 str) of the appropriate stat. And then it stacks with bloodlust.



Mother1 -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 19:56:21)

@ xendran

Well Massacre unlike surgical strike and Supercharge aren't based off of tech. Plus if you haven't noticed all strength skills other then fireball is based off of (insert X) Percent more unlike having them on a fixed scale like the others depending on how much of that stat the person has.

As for massacre stacking with blood lust that is only with bounty hunter not cyber hunter.



Xendran -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 19:57:56)

I am well aware that massacre isn't based off tech, which is why me having less strength should not have given me a better result with massacre than having 80 tech with supercharge.



Mother1 -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 20:09:09)

@ xendran

I also said Massacre like every other strength move other then fireball is scaled differently. Have you not noticed that? Every strength move at each level does X percent more damage based off of weapon strength unlike dex tech and support moves that are on a fixed scale depending on the amount of dex, tech, or support you have.




ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 20:16:23)

Suggestion based on comments: Have mass scale with strength for fixed amounts for physical damage (Same animation), ignore 15-20% defense.
This equals it out with Supercharge, perhaps slightly UP, maybe a 25% def ignore.

Also, buff all ultimates base damage a little to increase their usefulness.



RageSoul -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 20:41:50)

Merc's old HA .



Xendran -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 21:07:58)

Just because str skills scale differently doesn't make it correct or balanced with the current scaling numbers and/or method.
Although i don't know why im bothering posting in this thread, seeing as smoke+mass is already being toned down for omega.



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Skills (1/12/2013 22:52:52)

It would be better at balancing because it would scale with stats, which there will be a lot less to work with in Omega, unlike weapon damage which will always increase with the levels.



Dimentic -> RE: Skills (1/13/2013 1:43:48)

@Xen What do you mean by toned down? Obviously, if the current formula isn't changed then massacre should be even more OP in Omega.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Skills (1/13/2013 17:39:58)

-Venom Strike should still require wrist blades, but should do 100% damage on it's hit rather than 70%, and do 12 poison damage like poison grenade. (It really doesn't make sense that a mercenary's poison grenade should be so much better than a bounty hunters poison attack as they are both tier 4.)

-Massacre needs to be fundamentally altered, but I'm stumped as to how.

-Shadow Arts should increase block and deflection chance, but only 5% of each. That way it would be helpful against both blockable and unblockable battle strategies.

-Multi Shot and Plasma Rain should be defense-peircing.

-Field Medic should improve with support.

-Cheap shot should be able to ignore a higher % of defense, maybe 40-45% at max. This seems like a lot but remember you'd have to invest 9 stat points into the skill to get this which means sacrificing massacre or shadow arts.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Skills (1/13/2013 22:57:36)

I think what Prince means for massacre is like the same way Fireball works. I like it, but I would like it tested into balance, that's all.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Skills (1/13/2013 23:41:31)

I support Prince's idea of making massacre work like fireball. That way a +35 primary won't give an absurd damage boost. Back when the level cap was 30 massacre was less of a problem. An 124% massacre on a +30 primary is 38 additional damage, for a total damage of [Str Range]+68. An 124% massacre on a level 35 primary is 43 damage boost, for a total of [Str range]+78. An extra 10 damage may seem like a lot, but that's 10 extra damage on top of what was previously possible. So a massacre that would've done 40, would do 50 with a +35 weapon, which is a 25% increase in damage. This primary damage inflation is the same reason why Deadly Aim and Bludgeon are so powerful now.

Making massacre work like supercharge or surgical strike but improving with support would make a lot of sense.

Here's a random suggestion out of the blue....what if massacre improved with dex instead of str? An interesting thought at least.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: Skills (1/14/2013 6:25:04)

^ The massacre formula was different in past.



Massacre should hit higher than supercharge and surgical since its only dmg. For example at 93 tech and str, Super Charge deal 73-81 dmg and Massacre deal 95-110. But super charge also have hp return and res ignore. If you get 10-15 hp and ignore 7-8 res. Super Charges effect will be 90-104. Which is almost same as massacre.

The unbalanced thing is stats, str gives primary dmg but tech gives nothing without 5 focus which is stupid.



King FrostLich -> RE: Skills (1/14/2013 6:50:29)

Massacre and every other % of increased damage skills have the same formula that is based off your weapon damage not your whole strength damage. The formula also starts by multiplying your weapon damage rather than decreasing your total primary damage first which makes it overpowered.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Skills (1/19/2013 17:12:55)

I miss the old massacre formula.
I was actually able to beat str hunters fairly. Now, if I beat them with a 5 focus build, I come with like 5 hp left from going FIRST, that is...that's not right.
Otherwise, I just lose..REALLY easily.



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