Deadly Aim (Full Version)

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VanitySixx -> Deadly Aim (1/17/2013 0:22:54)

Well, I did not believe it at first, but now I am convinced...Blood Mages are somewhat overpowered. Their ability to deal so much damage while receiving a little AND being able to shield themselves from smoke and malfunction is too ridiculous.

I think the fair thing to do is replace Deadly Aim with static charge maybe. I can bet, some blood mages will disagree with this so they can keep on winning but you have to see it from other people's view.

By taking away Deadly Aim, Blood Mages no longer can do 45 bot damage to you and THEN gun you with rage for an extra 40+ damage.

If you agree, thank you ^_^

If you disagree, maybe I can *try* and convince you...idk..lol. Worth a shot :)



Mother1 -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/17/2013 1:10:49)

Not supported. Strength BM would have a field day with Static charge. Heck even focus BM would have a field day with it. Every 2 turns they will be able to do massive damage and gain energy back along with health? no just no. This would OP the class even worse then before.



Drianx -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/17/2013 2:57:43)

I agree with BMs being OPed, but hey we're still in Delta.
And Delta sux.
But Omega comes.
Let's wait for it and then see what needs to be adjusted, balance-wise.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/17/2013 4:19:14)

"By taking away Deadly Aim, Blood Mages no longer can do 45 bot damage to you and THEN gun you with rage for an extra 40+ damage."

Deadly Aim has nothing to do with bot damage.

In Omega Titan wants to change out the across class linked class skills to make adjusting the classes easier without affecting other classes so switching out Deadly Aim with Static Charge just will create further problems because any adjustments will affect not one but two classes.



Remorse -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/17/2013 4:26:33)

We need to all postpone balance improvement suggestions until omega is released after all it's not like they are gonna make the changes before they release the update, it's likely many oped things now will turn out all right.



Dark Hyren -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/17/2013 6:35:45)

I second that motion ! LAWL .. [:D]



VanitySixx -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/17/2013 16:52:52)

quote:

"By taking away Deadly Aim, Blood Mages no longer can do 45 bot damage to you and THEN gun you with rage for an extra 40+ damage."

Deadly Aim has nothing to do with bot damage.


Most BM's use 5 focus. I know deadly aim doesn't increase bot damage lol.

Its just, with 5 focus they can deal too much damage and not receive much at all.

quote:

We need to all postpone balance improvement suggestions until omega is released after all it's not like they are gonna make the changes before they release the update, it's likely many oped things now will turn out all right.


That's how I felt right when I posted it -.-



theholyfighter -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/19/2013 7:39:38)

BL+DA+Decent Def/Resis(about 30) is Oped. I call that: BL+DA+DDR=OP



CN2025 -> RE: Deadly Aim (1/28/2013 6:01:56)

Well i keep facing str bm and i kinda lsoe every time since they are so op with dage's gun with da rage and bludgeon
and platinum pride for an unblockable rage steal str based atack '-'



RageSoul -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 7:38:41)

I actually find the Intimidate-ES/RB combo more OPed . DA only amplifies every combo and that's it .



King Helios -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 9:46:31)

I am 16-4 in 2v2 with a STR BM. Erm, overpowered much? 26-32 +5 (+8) Dage's E Gun.



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 10:36:13)

Mother1

While static will be bad for str BMs, da is and will always be worse then static.
DA is too OP combined with BMs skill tree.



Mother1 -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 11:07:30)

@ zeph

And making them a health and energy class is a better idea? No just no. Not only that but you can't take a passive and not give them a passive. it would only level them with one passive.



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 11:20:36)

If you call it like that, then TLMs are also a health and energy class so yeah.
Only prob is the ppassive and non passive part, but oh well, tlms also dont have a debuf so the rules dont really hold anything back.

I myself would replace it with adrenaline.
That would nerf the BMs better.



Mother1 -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 12:01:44)

@ zeph

So you want to punish all BM for just 2 builds? yeah that sounds very fair. Let's reduce diversity and variety for all builds because strength and focus BM are OP but the whole class itself isn't. Remember changing one thing within a class will affect all the builds that use it not just one.

Plus with adrenaline we already have BM raging at turn 3 without it due to blocks, deflections and crits. Are you trying to make strength BM and possibly focus BM be able to rage at turn 3 for lowering damage by 10 points at most? (since this is what Deadly aim gives them added to their sidearm at max)



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 12:16:54)

Just a suggestion, but maybe an alternate version of DA for BM specifically (so it won't OP TM):

The gun damage is boosted by a set number based off of support (and possibly level). It will scale fairly slowly, and will have a requirement change to high amounts of dexterity. For example, if a BM had focus-like support (Approx 45+15 or around 60), the skill point investment list for DA would look something like this:

Increases with: Support
Required stat: 27 Dex (+3 per level)

1. +1 damage
2. +2
3. +3
4. +4
5. +5
6. +6
7. +7
8. +8
9. +10
10. +12

If you noticed, the skill actually becomes more effective with more points invested. This may seem like an advantage to focus BMs, but they'd have to invest most spare focus points into dex, leaving 94 HP. 94 HP builds are prone to glass cannons such as strength hunters, mercs, and other strength BMs. The abnormally high dex requirement is a way to block off builds with decently high offensive capabilities such as focus and strength, but keep other BM build types pretty much the same, if not more interesting without being OP. The way it increases with support will also be quite unique: The more support you have (Let's say, every 25 support points?) the +2s at the end will appear sooner and sooner. For example, if you have <25 support, there will be no +2s, and the cap bonus damage will be +10. If you have <50 supp, then from level 9 to level 10 it'll be +2 damage, thus capping at +11. <75 supp will be +2s from level 8-9 and onward, and capping at 12, etc...

Please note that this will be only for BM, not TM, to prevent OP combinations of support and malf.



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 21:52:51)

^That is very OP, cap it at 10 and don't have it increase with support, then I would consider it because it will be less effective as the levels increase, since it is not % based. Either way I think that DA is fine and it is just the combo of BM skills that make them OP.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 22:15:41)

Mother1
I hardly see any other type of build
The only person I have ever fought with a NOT strength or focus build has been... URGH! Can't remember the name...
But I guess I've fought 2 that didn't abuse focus or strength... Even then, one was still focus I guess, just less centered around it

Those are the only builds anyone uses
Why? Because of deadly aim, they dominate



Mother1 -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 22:50:34)

@ blaze

And why is it that almost everyone uses these builds? Because every other creative build got nerfed into the ground because people are doing just what is being done here complain about certain moves being OP when in fact they really were not.

While some things are truly OP, most come and complain here because they come across something they can't beat with their current build. (which believe it or not is how somethings are suppose to be being your build can best some but not all) Eventually enough people complain about it and guess what the nerfing process starts.

However by doing said nerf you hurt all the builds that use this one, as well as give other builds that would normally be able to beat said build a buff. Then it is the same thing all over again. When one build falls another raises to take it place. At the rate we are going every build will be nerfed into the ground.

Plus you know what is funny blaze? From what I have been reading everyone who has played in alpha and beta said the game was much more balanced and fair to both sides. However when Gamma came everything started going downhill. I wonder what came in gamma that beta and alpha didn't have? Oh wait I know enhancements came.

While I am glad they are going in omega, Enhancements are one of the major things that destroyed balance. How I can I say this? Well here is a list of reasons why I know this is the case.

1 one group of players could get them quick while the other had it really hard.

We both now if you were a varium player you had the power to get enhancements quick and easy. However if you were a non varium you could never see these quick unless you were a hacker. I mean seriously the prices for non variums to get enhancements were crazy. Because of this one side was making punching bags of the other. How does this relate to this conversation? Most of the Blood mages using deadly aim that are destroying the competition are varium blood mages not non varium. But if we take away deadly aim, it will hurt non varium Blood mages far more then varium ones.

2 Enhancements helped fool the balance checker

While this may sound crazy, it is true. How do most varium players get so much damage out of their moves now? Answer focus all of the stats in one area if they are doing a strength, support, tech, or dex build, and when they use the moves with this they are supercharged because of enhancements. Can a non varium without enhancements see power like this? I don't think so. Now while the varium community was originally small, many non variums would rage quit when getting to varium players because it became no more fun. As a result of this the varium community compared to non variums increased, and most of the hardcore players (which make up most of the balance checker readings) were varium players with full enhancements. With all these extra stats supercharging varium player moves, while non variums were decreasing and those who stayed complained it is a wonder why many moves were nerfed when it was the extra stats destroying the balance by fooling the balance checker.

My point is wait until omega comes when we will be enhancement free before you start suggesting nerfs to more moves.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 22:52:53)

@ED Prince of Shadows: Considering BM skill trees, it's a flawless replacement for BMs alone (it won't change TM's DA) from my opinion. Here is my reasoning:

-Strength builds simply don't have the investment in support to make my suggestion effective
-If the strength build was a support/strength combination, it still wouldn't work because I placed an insane dex requirement which would make it hard to create those builds
-Focus builds can't abuse it easily without sacrificing 110 HP for 94 instead because of the high dex requirement. At 94 HP, pretty much most strength BHs with emp will totally crush 94 HP BMs.

If you explained even a single possible scenario where the replacement I suggested would be OP, then I would reconsider my reasoning. For now, I find the suggestion pretty fitting to balance out the class fully.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 22:57:52)

@Penguin
What about not strength abusing classes?
What about not emp-accessible classes?

it could be OP for them
Look at nordelborgos (Sorry if I spelt it wrong)
He has 94 hp, if I recall correctly, and he destroys



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/1/2013 23:22:40)

@Penguin
The problem is that if anyone abuses support, then they will have an aux and side arm of crazy power.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/2/2013 0:27:01)

Let me think...

The highest support I've ever gotten is 159 with 94/95 HP. overall, that means if you maxed the skill out, which would require like 55 dex or so, then your supp would have to be lower if you wanted a good HP level. Also, if you haven't noticed, supp BM is a total fail without strength, I tried using multiple build types for it and yielded no strong results. Supposing I can get the highest level deadly aim, which would be less than 150 support with 94 HP, that would mean that the highest boost on gun damage would be like +15 or +16. Aside from aux and gun, you would pretty much yield no other offensive capabilities, and while having pretty suky defenses and only 94 HP. Therefore, I don't think support would be a problem.

I fought the player you mentioned as a strength BH, and, I assure you, zerker or mass can easily take half of any focus BMs HP, as long as they don't buff. Using energy primary strength BH, I have pretty much a 95% win rate against 95 HP builds without passive armors, and I don't even use boosters to boot. Main reason is cause massacre is based off of set damage, so, if you level it up enough, it's unstoppable when fighting BMs. I assure you from my fighting experience against countless BMs (Just got 300+ 1v1 wins today as the energy primary strength BH, and atleast 80 of those fights were against focus BMs) that because of the set damage boost from %-based attacks, and the fact that massacre is unblockable, just makes non-super-tanky 95 hp focus builds defenseless against certain builds. All classes have a pretty dependable energy removal, except for other BMs (which doesn't apply since it's same class versus same class) and TM. Considering TM can use malfunction, the deflection rate is lowered even more, making maxing out deadly aim even less dependable. Also, if my suggestion were to be OP on focus builds, they would have to max it out, and even then, most focus builds have less than 75 support. Meaning that you would pretty much need to max out deadly aim to get a mere +2 more damage per gun compared to level 8 deadly, and at the cost of a lot of points invested in dex, a stat which doesn't necessarily benefit the deflection rates.

The only problem I see is that TMs might be at a disadvantage against BMs because of their lack of dependable energy removal, but certainly there can be some minor alterations to fix that dilemma.



Remorse -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/2/2013 3:22:46)

^ IMO, deadly aim doesn't need to be changed,

Making it something that increases with a stat leaves it open to be abused, Just because the abusing factor is hard to see now, things change and maybe one day support BMs will be OP, I can already see the major possibilities if heal goes back to support as suggested, combined with string shields, intim and your suggested deadly aim change will probably make them oped.

The point is, anything that increases raw damage of something else like deadly aim needs to have nothing improve it because if their is, its is inevitable that it will be abused eventually.



STR builds is what that needs a nerf, and luckily omega is doing just that indirectly.




Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Deadly Aim (2/2/2013 3:54:15)

Mother

quote:

So you want to punish all BM for just 2 builds?

Focus BM = OP
Str BM = OP
Other builds= Dont use DA
So yeah, i want to punish them

quote:

Plus with adrenaline we already have BM raging at turn 3 without it due to blocks, deflections and crits. Are you trying to make strength BM and possibly focus BM be able to rage at turn 3 for lowering damage by 10 points at most? (since this is what Deadly aim gives them added to their sidearm at max)

I would rather have a raging bm without DA in 3 turns (not even a real number that 3 turns but ok i will go with you)
Then i would have a BM with +10 dmg every 3 turns and a rage 1 turn later



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