Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (Full Version)

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Giras Wolfe -> Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 17:28:58)

Good afternoon class. Today, I am going to talk to you about something called synergy.

Synergy is basically different elements that work together.

In a skill tree, synergy is what makes a class overpowered or underpowered. Here's some examples:

Blood mages tend to be overpowered due to the synergy between bloodlust and Deadly Aim/Bludgeon.
Bounty Hunters tend to be overpowered due to the synergy between bloodlust and massacre.
Tech Mages have, most memorably, been overpowered due to the synergy between Field Medic and Reroute.

Now lets talk a little bit about Mineral Armor and Plasma Armor.
Plasma Armor implies high dexterity because it allows you to cover your resistance without investing points in tech.
Mineral Armor implies high technology because it allows you to cover your defense without investing points in dex.

Therefore, in order for these classes to have synergy, Tactical Mercinaries need skills improving with tech, and cyber hunters need skills improving with dex.

An obvious way to do this is to swap their grenades. This will provide lovely synergy for both classes.

Tactical Mercinaries would want high tech and support, because high tech makes their auxillary more reliable and balances their defenses. And, in Omega, support will also improve the heal/reroute synergy. Thus this would provide them a grenade with a good damage and stun chance attack easy accessible at tier 2.

Cyber Hunters would have a beautiful synergy between the stun grenade and both of their passives. Plasma armor would allow them higher dex and Shadow Arts would increase their stun chance significantly. Also high support is useful to the class due to malfunction.

I just want to see two rarely used skills become more useful and appreciated. And switching the grenades on the two classes is a very simple and effective way to do this.

Thanks for reading, and let the feedback and discussion begin.



Lycan. -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 18:08:41)

Stun grenade should get a buff.



Mother1 -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 18:20:05)

@ giras

Don't forget when both of these classes first came stun grenade worked well with TLM because they had smoke, and Cyber hunter's plasma grenade works because of malfuction.

While TLM lost smoke which is an issue Cyber hunter still has Malfuction so it can still sync with that debuff.



the final hour -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 18:26:44)

@mother1

TLM didnt have stun grenade initially technician was where that was on the skill tree TLM had maul instead.

i believe stun grenade came in after smoke was removed altho i was on a break from the game when smoke was removed so i could be wrong,



Mother1 -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 18:32:39)

@ the final hour

Nope when smoke was remove field commander was put in it's place. Stun grenade was already there before smoke was removed.

Here is the design notes that talks about this



the final hour -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 18:35:17)

oh i know smoke was removed for FC.(bad trade off but we wont go their)

and i know technician was where stun grenade is now. but i codda swore they had maul.

quote:

•TLM - Replace Maul with Stun Grenade
◦Keeps stun skill; removes easy, low cost damage skill
•TLM - Replace Hybrid Armor with Mineral Armor (New skill - passively gives physical defense)
◦Reduces inherent tankiness of TLM
•TLM - Replace Technician with Blood Shield ◦Reduces ability to be more tanky + increase damage output + heal
•CH - Replace Technician with Plasma Armor (passively gives energy resistance)
◦Gives them a reliable passive with better defensive options
•Bunker Buster/Plasma Canno
◦Weaker at lower levels, stronger scaling for high levels
•BM - Replace Technician with Energy Shield
◦Gives BM higher energy resistance
•Artillery Strike - Remove stat requirement
◦Bring it in line with other multis
•Improve Fireball & Plasma bolt
◦Slightly weaker early levels, scales much better mid-high levels
•Slightly reduce passive Armor skills’ defense/resistance
◦Evens out scaling per skill level, make it slightly less powerful

i musta been wrong with where technician was on the skill tree codda swore it was where stun grenade is now .



Mother1 -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 18:45:30)

While this is true, on the note of the Original topic they still had the synergy that OP was talking about since stun grenade and smoke could be combo'd like maul and smoke could before it was removed.

That was the original point I was bringing up. As it stands right now though since smoke was removed (since it was either smoke or reroute) the synergy with stun grenade for TLM went away. However switching the two would hurt Cyber hunters since they still have synergy with malf and plasma grenade.



the final hour -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 18:54:29)

i see very few cyber hunters using plasma grenade . as i see very few using stun grenade like u see very few bhes using it and when they do they dnt use it with smoke gennerally their pretty bad skills too heavy on mana to smoke and use the grenades if u lvl the skills up higher . not to mention the fact u gennerally need the points else where (passives) to me smoke changed to field commander was a hardcore nerf to tlms. ( but honestly i can see why it was neccersary) technician to blood shield i preffered technician but again i can see why it was needed, not being able to switch hybrid again not the end of the world i can understand why they did it. however changing maul too stun grenade maul is far more useful and with the other nerfs i dont see why it was needed.



Remorse -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/3/2013 23:17:50)

I agree with the grenade swap giras!


Or another alternative, but a bit more wild would be to actually swap the passive armour types around.


So that cybers have mineral and TLMs have plasma.
This way it won't hurt cyber hunters synergizing with malfunction.


@ Above,
Maul was swapped out because given the fact it was an improved normal strike (Worth it to use even when it doesn't stun) and low costing in mana,

TLMs could use this multiple times with reroute through a battle making the stun chance extremely high not to mention overpowered.


IMO this was one of the better nerfs they did to TLMs because the constant maul high STR builds was EXTREMELY overpowered.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Switch Stun Grenade and Plasma Grenade for Tmerc and Cyber (2/4/2013 0:33:33)

quote:

Cyber hunter still has Malfuction so it can still sync with that debuff.


Thats a very superficial synergy though. All builds need powerful physical and energy attacks, so if the opponent puts up an energy shield they have a powerful physical alternative. Thus, it doesn't really help the class that much for the grenade to be energy because if they need an extra energy attack they could just use an energy primary, sidearm, aux, or robot.



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