Rapid Rage Gain (Full Version)

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Exploding Penguin -> Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 19:18:38)

Rage Gain is insane, even without platinum's pride pretty much every single strength build can gain rage in 2 turns. I think that there should either be a turn limit on how fast you can gain rage, or make it so that rage doesn't scale completely off of damage and support, and off of other factors as well.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 19:31:12)

Is that a glitch? I found myself for whatever reason raging in just 2 turns, well I have high support + level 7 adrenaline but I never raged that fast before.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 19:40:16)

No, not at all. Today I just fought a massacre BH with 7 massacre. He used rage, then I healed, then he used massacre, then I healed again with generator, then he raged again. He was able to rage just off of massacre alone...ridiculous. I even had more support than him.



ValkyrieKnight -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 19:49:38)

Well you know how ED is, no reward for trying to get your barrings. Most of the time I try to lower their stats or increase mine it becomes self defeating as they just blast me with attacks building rage. Again only made worse if your defense is high.



Fortitudo -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 20:03:13)

Rage can be built fast if you are a merc and have your berserker blocked.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 20:05:18)

thing is, I have 11-14+10 defense, and they used massacre on me when I had 40 solid defense (0+10+30). 40 is just a few points over normal tanking of passive armor classes, and I find it ridiculous and near impossible that using a single move grants a full rage meter from an empty one.



Goony -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 21:42:57)

quote:

Rage will cause the next attack to ignore a percent of defenses, dealing extra damage.
[Formula] Filled Rage Bar = 40 + (2.5 * Level)
As an attacker, rage is gained at a rate of 110% of damage blocked (by the opponents defense/resistance) + 1% per 4 support you have over the defender, up to a maximum rate of 125%. If at a support disadvantage, the minimum rate is 95%.
As a defender, rage is gained at a rate of 25% of the damage taken, +0.25% per 4 support you have over the attacker, up to a maximum rate of 29%. If at a support disadvantage, the minimum rate is 21%.


Ok, here's how rage currently works, it was implemented to address tank builds and the game has evolved somewhat from that period back in the Alpha phase and was tinkered with in Delta phase.

I have been doing some testing and dependant on the opponents defence or resistance I can rage every 3rd turn, class doesn't effect rage build or str for that matter. Although adrenaline can help, it's really dependant on defence and resistance of your opponent.

A level cap player has 128pt rage bar and the devs will be having a close look at how rage is calculated.

I had made a suggestion about it and was wondering if perhaps some of you may be able to point out issues or suggest some improvements to the way rage is calculated.

Revised calculation shown in red:

As an attacker, rage is gained at a rate of 110% of damage blocked (by the opponents defense/resistance) + 1% per 1 support you have over the defender, up to a maximum rate of 150%. If at a support disadvantage, the minimum rate is 70%.
As a defender, rage is gained at a rate of 25% of the damage taken, +1% per 2 support you have over the attacker, up to a maximum rate of 50%. If at a support disadvantage, the minimum rate is 0%

So overall, if you have 40 support more than your opponent you can get the cap of maximum rage gains, old required 60 support higher to get maximum rage gains, but there were more stats
The biggest change is to defensive rage and 50 support more will now maximise rage gains and minimise opponent's

WHY - The current rage formula allows strength spammers too much of an advantage, not only can they rage before an opponent who has 80 support when they have 20 support, they are also able to deal out more damage and on rage used with % increase unblockables they can also ignore defences and thus create an impression that support does very little to modify rage gain

~ G00NY



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 22:43:11)

@Goony I really like your idea, I think it will help against the high hp strength mercs, but may benefit support abusing CHs that use massacre.



ND Mallet -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 22:47:09)

The only major problem I see is the lack of a base amount for defenders. Support abuse could easily take the place of strength abuse if you can't get any rage from them hitting 50-60 damage on you, depending on crits or not.



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/12/2013 22:52:47)

I feel that support has been nerfed too much in the past year or so, it really needs a bigger role. I have yet to see any support builds hat are viable, I was rather hoping that field medic would scale with support once again.



Goony -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/13/2013 1:46:05)

@ND, the thing about crits is that they ignore defences and have a minimum extra damage based on level, you would have noticed that when you crit that rage gain is lower due to this! I feel that support abuse is easier to counter due to the fact support based attacks have a longer cooldown and can't be used evey turn, unlike strength abuse which provides constant attacks that builds rage and bypasses the support differential.

Having a low rage gain when you have no support means that str abusers will be forced to lift their support so that the differential is not as great, more points in support means less in strength. So, instead of balancing the game by directly lowering strength based attacks and using the option to take away one of their most devastating attacks (rage) means that other less abusive builds won't become underpowered... I don't know if that will work totally, but it may be a good starting point!

On the subject of criticals they, at the moment, ignore 50% of defences. With the restructured HP/EP and lowered defences and resistances due to lower stats, it also may come under some scrutiny and be lowered to reduce the effect of criticals. E.g Defence ignore lowered from 50% to say 35%

I can understand what you are saying about the lack of rage gain against high support builds, but by placing the bulk of their statistics into support they are reducing their defences and will be subject to consistantly higher damage on themselves. Even if they get rage every 2nd or 3rd turn they will still have to manage with energy loss, deflections and blocks that will occur more often.

@ ED PoS, yes there are certain builds that are potent at the moment with high support and in these cases it's mainly the classes with Malfunction that improves with support, also Tech Mages who use Deadly Aim that has a support requirement. But, the real issue here may be the buffs that improve with support, manipulating rage gain formulas may also bring other builds into play. That's why I was asking for some feedback :)

The overall power of melee based attacks including massacre is being reviewed at the moment and may be changed in the near future!



Remorse -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/13/2013 2:09:00)

I came up with a side step solution to needing attack, so you can keep up the rage advantage.


I think a change to rage itself is definitely needed.

But I also think sometime in the near future, turns that don't give rage need to be given a bonus of some sort to counteract the bonus you get for attacking.


My meditation idea is a version of this.


But it would be cool if they come up with some sort of way to give non rage giving turns an extra purpose.

So turns that dont give rage aren't considered something you NEED to do in order to stay alive but perhaps something you want to do.


If you would like to see my meditation idea PM me, I'll send you the link.



theholyfighter -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/13/2013 3:16:28)

Have you seen this?!

Opponent uses Rage.
I do something.
Opponent uses Chairman's Fury.
I do something.
Opponent uses Rage again.

This happens 100% of the time, and I find it ridiculous. Thought it steals 25% opponent Rage? Then how come the user has 75% ready already? Besides, the person being used on has to hav 100% full?!

Ridiculous. That's the main problem I see with Rage.



Remorse -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/13/2013 3:22:24)

^ It doesn't happen 100% of the time,

It usually only happens when a person uses CF, on a person with a full rage bar and their tanky.


But I agree it, should probably work like that.



theholyfighter -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/13/2013 3:24:42)

Nope, my rage bar was 75% full when by opponent uses CF (after rage). Then they got Rage again. Besides I'm using a 5-focus, which doesn't seem like a tank.



ED Prince of Shadows -> RE: Rapid Rage Gain (2/13/2013 9:22:59)

Another thing to consider is that many support builds can be easily countered with the use of the yetis. It is easy to make the builds that focus on the use of their aux to have 5 turns of cool downs if I plan it correctly. Support really needs a buff like this because it was once the best way to counter strength builds and I think that it being UP just makes strength OP. It is one of those situations where increasing effectiveness of certain builds nerfs another build at the same time.

I don't really care if certain classes benefit the most from this buff but we need to make sure that it couldn't in theory make CHs too good when combined with massacre. I am not too concerned with TMs because while they will have a very effective build, it is nothing new and will be a great counter to strength builds. Also, the yetis make an easy counter to support TMs to those that have it.



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