RE: The Problems with Every Class (Full Version)

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WolverineIsBack -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/19/2013 19:40:22)

I think reroute needs to be toned down as energy is just as important as health for some builds.




lolo666 -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/20/2013 3:28:00)

Well... I agree to nerfing TM since caster builds are pretty much overpowering.. XD
But to tell you this..

Making the Smoke have a support requirement is useless since massacre needs support :p So, it will be like nothing to the BH :p so, better think of another else :p




NDB -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/20/2013 3:29:13)

^ it already does have one




Drianx -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/20/2013 3:48:00)

quote:

Making the Smoke have a support requirement is useless since massacre needs support

There are strength builds with Smoke but without Massacre you know...




lolo666 -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/20/2013 3:55:27)

I know that.. I have been a BH since delta -.-




huuduy1 -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/20/2013 20:30:19)

Buff poision please !!!.
curerent poision damage ( 11 ) + 5 = 16/turns
Would be useful to anti tanker with 40 defense/resistance
With BM i found support tanky is useful in 2vs2




Goony -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 2:18:20)

quote:

Mercenary
Strength builds are the biggest problem here. This class can only rely on strength to win. Nerf Strength Build.


While I don't agree that the class is totally reliant on strength to win, there are some changes coming in the next update that will reduce the effectiveness of the strength builds:
  • Change hybrid armor requirement to support!
  • Change 1st strike calculation that makes support more useful!
  • Not decided totally yet, but changes to strength progression table!


There are other changes to balance coming in this update, but you'll have to wait until Rabblefroth posts the Patch Notes to see all the changes ;)




Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 2:43:00)

@Goony
So will both of mercs passives be support requirement driven?
I see the primary merc build post-update...




Goony -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 4:45:20)

@Blaze, yes! Do you forsee any issue with that?

Mercenaries have a lot of skills with dexterity requirements and some builds exploited that, there is still achance that bezerker may be moved to technology, but Rabblefroth wants to see how the changes to 1st strike and the shift to support requirement plays out!

So, now mercenaries can still use the strength build, but they won't have the defence and resistance that hybrid provides or they can sacrifice strength for support and have a better chance to go 1st along with some extra defences. This is not the end of the balance changes, just another tweek!




Ranloth -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 6:56:09)

Moving Zerker to Technology wouldn't fix the problem, they'd forgoe few stat points and get more defence in return which is handy with no defensive skill (but HA) and no passive EP/HP regen to loop. I'd rather you move Zerker to Support requirement and leave HA as it is since it's clearly.. not the problem. Yes Dex may be needed for them but it also has different advantages for them such as some defence and small chance to block. It'll actually affect non-Str build more than Str builds; they can also keep HA at Lvl 8 (5/5) which will be what, 37 Support? This isn't that bad, or they can go for Lvl 6 HA (4/4) and have the requirement at mere 31 Support. That is already low and they lose 1 point in each which can be easily overcome by investing 6 points off Support into HP or Str or whatever.

It's offensive skills that are the problem. Players are likely to have near-max Zerker to maximise damage output and since Dexterity is the requirement then it's no problem for them (higher chance to hit). Making it Technology + HA to Support won't affect them as much if they lower HA a bit more, and Technology on Zerker will only raise their defence which is really not a drawback. Whilst if you put Zerker on Support, you can lower down their damage big time; having to lower Strength for sake of Support requirement, if they decide to go for lower Zerker then there's still small Support requirement + they'll deal less damage anyway.

Strength progression is a good fix, yes, but proposed changes to HA and possibly Zerker won't do much. Put Strength progression nerf + Support requirement on Zerker together then you will see quite a nice difference. There'll be Double Strike though with 33 Dex requirement at Level 10 which isn't much. Make base requirement to be 14 Dex and +3 per level for up to 41 Dex at Lvl 10.
This would allow to split requirements equally between skills that deal the most damage;
  • Dexterity for DS and HA would go fine (and HA could be higher so less points on offensive skills)
  • Support on Zerker will lower down their Strength or take some from defence (including HP); easier to kill instead
  • They are likely to have mid-high Heal which has Technology requirement instead.

    So they will split stats somewhat equally between it all, this time having to actually invest in Support for higher damage output. And since DS requires a bit higher Dex than before + HA isn't always maxed out, they will have to take more outta base stats rather than keep base low and use stat modifiers on weapons to boost it up. And Strength progression getting tweaked for lower damage, this would really fix problem with Strength abuse for Mercenaries but also all the other classes (other have problem with Strength, not necessarily the skills; these can have % bumped down even further if needed; Massacre, Bludgeon, etc.).




  • Goony -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 7:30:12)

    @ Trans, Why is your writing not blue?

    Putting bezerker to support would only mean that they wouldn't train it as high! Or, I can hear the screams already when the bezerker criticals more often if they do, especially if they forgoe maxing dex reqs for DS and HA, use the connect core and train a max BC and adrenaline instead... Ouch I felt that :) Alternatively, only train a level 1 bezerker and use exactly the same build and have the same def/res and use DS 1st turn, 3rd turn, maul 2nd and then rage zerker. Defence ignore on rage might mean that they get 5-10 less damage than a maxed bezerker...

    Either way has issues and I like HA having a support requirement instead, as this is different to the other passive armors, and in my opinion it seems right that HA would have a support requirement. The mercenary class has the most skills with requirements and now that weapon requirements have been ditched, (you can see that in particular with support mages that have no strength, whereas back in previous phases almost all guns had a strength requirement.

    I trust Rabblefroth, balance changes are being implemented each update and already the changes can be felt ingame. I was just trying to give you all a heads up with what some of the balance changes may entail for the update. Balance will be refined further in the upcoming weeks and there are more changes, based on feedback, on the radar ;)




    comicalbike -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 7:41:48)

    there has always been a problem with the strength builds in this game it must be very herd to fix or they would have done it a long time ago goony is a very good merc player so he should know




    Ranloth -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 7:50:06)

    quote:

    Why is your writing not blue?

    If there's a paragraph which is important, I usually don't go for colours since it makes it harder to read. :P But now it's back. ;) Anyway..!

    Hmm, there's a point with Criticals happening more often. I missed that one out. Well with HA + Support, I don't have anything against it since my post revolved around other requirements which would make HA + Dex fine as it is but that is irrelevant now. Although, wouldn't Support requirement on HA do the same as on Zerker? Unless Strength nerf will be significant to actually nullify that by quite a bit. And you mentioned Def = Res if Dex = Tech, this can be a small defensive boost for all but more significant for players who are tanks & you also did mention Rage change at some point (and how it works) so perhaps all three of these could make the changes wise (Support to HA).
    Still iffy about Technology + Zerker, although I did notice players forgoing Tech + max E Armor so this could fix it to an extent but very minimal (invest more in base, less stat modifiers as opposed to now which is the opposite of that).




    button33 -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 8:30:42)

    @Goony

    Are there any plans to nerf caster mages? There's people with 140 technology just spamming plasma bolt.




    Goony -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 9:17:32)

    @ Button, not in this update, but if they become really pesky they will get looked at in the future.

    @Trans
    quote:

    And you mentioned Def = Res if Dex = Tech, this can be a small defensive boost


    I don't think I mentioned this, but your sources may be onto something ;)





    Ranloth -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 9:32:10)

    My sources? Yeah, your post. XD
    quote:

    Rabblefroth is looking at stat progressions, I'm pretty sure dexterity and technology will scale the same after the next update!

    http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=21131326

    We should see how it goes. Easy solution can also be nerfing Strength (offence) and buffing defensive stats (Tech/Dex but in terms of Res/Def) only. Only issue with that is Tech/Dex abuse (TMs for example). :P




    button33 -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 9:33:52)

    @ Goony

    All Right. Mages should be nerfed soon thou. Heres why.

    Mages spam Technology, and with 130 technology, they can hit 80 with plasma bolt for only 29 energy.
    With Reroute and a pool of 70 energy and high hp, they gain back a lot of mana, allowing them to use plasma bolt twice, usually the second time with rage.
    And Apart from this, Mages have supercharge, which allows them to gain back both health and do damage, which is troublesome, as supercharge normally hits 40-60. Stacked on top of this is a high level heal...

    So the turns of the mages is
    1. Plasma
    2. Gun or something else...
    3. Heal...
    4. Supercharge...
    5. Rage Plasma...
    And your dead....

    There are lots of people who find an issue with this, especially plasma bolt. Maybe take a look at a higher energy cost, such as 33 like Blood Mage's Fireball, or maybe scale down the damage done by plasma bolt?




    Goony -> RE: The Problems with Every Class (2/22/2013 9:46:23)

    Dang alziheimers kicking in again... Wish they'd find a cure for that :p

    @button, I've been playing as a Tac Merc and pretty much just stall them to win, but that's not to say they don't need to be looked at sooner rather than later. Removing weapon requirements has thrown up some builds that were previously hard to make. I know Rabblefroth has some concerns about plasma bolt, but this is mostly in lower level battles and that's what makes balance so hard to achieve across the whole spectrum of levels, classes and skills!




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