Nerf to Support or Buff to Dex and Tech? (Full Version)

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xGreen Warriorx -> Nerf to Support or Buff to Dex and Tech? (2/23/2013 21:22:32)

I've noticed a ton of support builds lately, even more than there were after Omega started. It was mainly Mercs with artillery strike and recently TMs abusing it the worst (like 29-35 +39 aux dmg), but hunters are using it more (on average 19-25 +39 aux dmg) to go first and get a high lvl massacre (like I was). I just now switched to my own support abuse build with about 120 +35 supp and 31-38 +39 aux dmg, with high lvl malf, heal, massacre, shadow arts, and a lvl 4 or 5 plasma armor, and lvl 1 or 0 of everything else, and I'm shocked at how well it works.

I think some kind of buff needs to be made to dex and tech, and/or a nerf to support.

What do you think?



Mother1 -> RE: Support (2/23/2013 21:34:23)

I have to agree with you. Ever since Rabble changed the formula on how you go first, support builds 9 times out of ten goes first.

I personally think going first should depend on any stat period like the current field medic. It should be completely random so it doesn't favor no own build like it has been with support builds.

Also it was Tech that was nerfed not dex, but with all the unblockable attacks dex doesn't count for much either unless you are a melee class.



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: Support (2/23/2013 21:41:42)

^ I know dex wasn't nerfed, but I think it needs to be buffed. Tell me how many people you've seen with an effective dex build recently. I've seen 0 since Omega started, and I never saw many in the high lvls even in Delta.



Mother1 -> RE: Support (2/23/2013 22:36:01)

I have seen a few of them with the mages. Many of them spam it but at the same time due to weak defenses it is powerful.



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 6:44:08)

^ I fought a few dex TM builds also, but I beat them easily as a CH, so I wasn't counting them as effective. Maybe it was different for you.



XrevengeED -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 9:48:54)

Support been week all the thing merc have are now weak. Merc aleast need something strong in them .



Remorse -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 9:57:01)

they probably should of just buffed dex up to tech standard, not nerf tech down to dex...



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 10:31:07)

@Remorse
Exactly. Now that tech and str are nerfed, and dex wasn't that great to begin with, support is OP as a stat.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 11:07:26)

they probably should of just buffed dex up to tech standard, not nerf tech down to dex...

So true. Now is the worst possible time to nerf defensive stats even more. Between out of control critical hits and rage gain, I really dont find it likely we're in danger of tank builds being OP.

The only high defensive stat build that works right now is a mage caster build, and thats only because of the offensive aspect. No other class can successfully use 100+ of a defensive stat.



Demon Emperor -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 11:42:47)

Its kinda funny, yesterday every other person had a support build, but today its just TMs and mercs every now and then.

I agree to a dex buff though, there are literally no builds for dex anymore.



Stabilis -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 12:14:22)

Now the problem is this, from the perspective of a level capped player:

Dexterity and Technology's Defense and Resistance improve at approximately the same rate as Strength and Support's base damages. The differences are actually more noticeable with the more stat points involved, as the difference between protection and damage increases.

Using this information, we can see that D/R and damage (from stats) are balanced. But, weapon damage is 35 (minimum) and armour is 10 points. 25 damage difference (minimum), is therefore the difference between Strength VS Dexterity or Support vs Technology... which is why you or I may think "20" or "30" is the average damage per turn.

Solution for these high counts of damage?

If Technology and Dexterity do not change their progressions, the other option would be to raise armour protection, up to 35 points. Which, matches the Primary (Strike), and the calculated or final damage would be the difference between stat points... like the mentioned Strength VS Dexterity.

It would also help, because players may not all be fond of using a high degree of protection, that instead we could use the points for protection as health instead. Finally, because a point of D/R is based on the progression of Dexterity or Technology, changing a point of D/R to health is relative to 3 4 5 6... etc points based on the player's current progression.



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: Support (2/24/2013 13:01:26)

^ Some interesting ideas, especially the one about increasing armors defense. However, I think increasing the def/res of armors to 35 is too much, as that will make battles take too long because everyone will be doing 3 dmg.

Also, dex should be buffed and tech should be brought back to the way it was (or somewhere near the way it was) instead of increasing armor protection for the sake of skills that increase with dex and tech, and in turn for the sake of builds based on those skills, (like stun grenades for TLMs, BH, and CH, and multis for CH, TM and BM) which are right now nonexistant, except for of course the tech caster mage.



Hun Kingq -> RE: Support (2/26/2013 17:41:40)

I addressed this issue back in Gamma when they first change the stat progression making it impossible to have good dex/tech as well as power.

What made things worse especially in 2vs2 the 85% reduction hurt Plasma Rain and Multi-shot more unless you have malfunction. Even with high dex they still get Critical damage now and then more often than Plasma Rain even with increased support Critical damage is a rarity.

Then with tech mages and tank builds with high tech Plasma Rain and Multi-shot becomes a bigger joke. They need to help bring the energy based multis back in 2vs2 by being effective against high tech builds.

Smoke needs to be revamped where it does not improve with tech so much.

Malfunction needs to be revamped where it does not improve with support so much.

This is what needs to happen the ratio for dex/tech to strength/support needs to be narrowed at the higher levels.



....SKY.... -> RE: Support (2/26/2013 17:47:09)

Not supported, Mercs had quite a few nerfs to their class recently mainly strength, you cant just focus on nerfing 1 class all the time while other OPed classes like Tech Mages dont get any. If you want to nerf support, nerf Tech Mage's tech and Plasma first then. and you want to buff tech? seriously?



xGreen Warriorx -> RE: Support (2/26/2013 17:59:13)

^ I don't just want tech to be buffed, dex needs a buff also. Having both the tank stats equal and not UP should help build variety.
Also, supp mercs and supp TMs really do need another nerf. Spamming support with artillery strike, and supp with Malf are both extremely deadly, and you add Azraels will and you have a whole lot of OPness that needs to be fixed.

@Hun Kingq
What about Malf improving with dex?



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Support (2/26/2013 21:00:46)

I actually feel that dex doesn't deserve a buff, but tech didn't deserve a nerf and should go back to its original scaling. TM support is owning everyone with an 80-90% win rate because of the tech nerf. Here's my reasoning why: Blocks negate 100% of all damage and many vital attacks such as debuffs, bludgeon, zerker, and static charge are all blockable, and block scales incredibly fast with dex at an absurdly high cap of 35%, which can be increased even more by shadow arts. Deflections, on the other hand, scale slowly with tech and have a very low 25% cap. I think that tech should be moved back into original scaling, max block chance should be lowered, base block/deflection chance should be halved, and deflection scaling increased to 3 tech points instead of 4 per 1%.



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