Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (Full Version)

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The Incredible Hulk -> Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 5:31:36)

^^



RageSoul -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 5:33:23)

Or just put back the 10 EP removed instead . Mind you , CHs are also affected as well .



Remorse -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 5:43:52)

If I was forced to give this skill a nerf,


I would give this as well as atom smash a extra turn cool down.


WHY?

The skill itself reasonably balanced IMO, But being able to spam it with a short 2 turn cool down has overpowered tendencies.


This is the only nerf I would consider for this.



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 5:56:50)

^^

Its like saying there are alot of support multi abusers (As in alot of EMP abusers). I do not think this is balanced, too many EMPs going on which is very annoying + BHs got a buff anyways which makes them much stronger then before.

One guy EMP'd me, healed twice (generator including) and EMP'd me again and I had no energy.

I think EMP should be only usable once.
You need some sort of energy to heal (excluding generator) in battle.



Remorse -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 6:05:14)

^ Once only is an unfair restriction IMO.


If you think they are gonna EMP again, you have no one to blame but yourself for not spending the energy you have when you can.



One of the reason I think it should get an 1 turn extra cool down is because if your opponents starts, emp/atoms smashes, they can do it a second time before you even have warmed up enough to do your ultimate.

That is a bit unfair I agree but 1 extra cool down would fix this, not a massive one turn use only effect nerf. You should focus on spending energy faster to counter them.



J.U.S.T.I.C.E. -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 6:07:30)

CH's IMO are UP, before the update they could do ALOT of damage.. But now, there just like punching bags



The Incredible Hulk -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 6:13:56)

@remorse

I agree.



drinde -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 6:56:31)

Consider the other side. Without EMP, how would Bounty Hunters and Cyber Hunters deal with ROFLPLASMASPAM and large amounts of damage from Bunker Buster/Artillery Strike respectively?

If faced with EMP, you yourself could simply use Generator the turn you get your EP drained, and use the points before the cooldown wears off once more.

quote:

One of the reason I think it should get an 1 turn warm up is because if your opponents starts, emp/atoms smashes, they can do it a second time before you even have warmed up enough to do your ultimate.

That is a bit unfair I agree but 1 extra cool down would fix this, not a massive one turn use only effect nerf. You should focus on spending energy faster to counter them.


I don't quite understand. Do you want a turn of warm up, or a turn added to the cool down, or both?

I can understand it if you want either, but both is a tad extreme, no?



Remorse -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 7:01:48)

^ Sorry I ment 1 cool down,


Definitely not warm up.





theholyfighter -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 7:07:24)

CHs need EMP to kind-of stop massive damage skills (Massacre, Berserker, Bunk Buster, Plasma Bolt, BM's Blugeon, SugerCharge, Surgical Strike, Double Strike.....)

Now Cybers are kind-of UP, since they have no way to get health (Field Medic doesn't count, since all classes have it), and their energy regen skill is just there for decoration.

Taking away EMP/nerfing it? Nah, unless there's a good replacement.



midnight assassin -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 9:53:09)

Just buff assimilate.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 11:06:20)

@midnight assassin: That wouldn't be good, it already got nerfed so that the energy return got rounded down instead of up, and now it lost a lot of its value. A main portion of assim was dealing damage while stopping things like zerker and massacre, or to return energy back to the user since reroute lost some effectiveness. If you buffed assim, then TMs would pretty much have an endless supply of energy and would invest less in reroute and more into heal, deadly aim, malf, etc...

I agree that EMP should be nerfed to an extra turn cooldown, and that atom gets to remove 1.2x energy, costs 8 energy instead, make it unblockable, but gets reduced to 4 turn cooldown instead of 2. The main reason is to keep all EP removing skills at different cooldown rates so we don't get what we did when static was OP; if you have 2 focus/tank CHs, whoever goes first pretty much can stop the opponent for the entire fight since emp can always be used AFTER the opponent uses static again, and, if enough energy is taken, the opponent can't EMP the previous user back.



Blaze The Aion Ender -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 12:06:28)

Why wouldn't you just atom smash him?
It takes his energy, making that heal and 2 EMP's much more difficult
If your argument would be he would use generator and have enough to heal or EMP then, then in your first statement, you can hardly count generator as a heal, however, if his generator would have only healed HP (and 5 EP) then you wouldn't need to worry

Bounties and Cybers are both very vulnerable to energy removable; as much so as Merc or BM
I could be okay with a 1 turn extra cooldown, but it is annoying when they can just generator back enough energy the next turn, able to use an un-counterable move such as Massacre

I'm not very sure EMP is THAT strong, just effective



ReinVI -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 13:21:53)

I think that emp should really have another turn of cooldown... being able to be used as fast as it is just isn't fair there's no way to counter the draining since it's not blockable...
and the fact it can be used twice before turn 3 means most builds that use any form of energy are completely devestated by it.

turn one Emp
turn two opponent regenerates
turn three Emp again...




Trifire -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 14:08:17)

LOL, this change would op caster mages, and support mercenaries. You guys have generator to counter this skill. EMP is in no way OP. They should make it so that you can defect the EMP grenade.



ReinVI -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 14:20:11)

yes because 25 energy at most ( sacrificing your physical defense unless your a tact merc or to a lesser degree reg merc ) for a energy regain with 1-2 turn warmup vs a emp that barely costs any energy that easily within three turns can be used twice to take 20-30 energy each totally balances out.. oh and since it's based off of tech they actually get "more" resistance just to invest in the skill that increases how much energy the skill takes.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 15:50:14)

If you use it on turn 1, you can't use it again until turn 4.

Turn 1: EMP
Turn 2: Emp cooldown: 2
Turn 3: EMP cooldown: 1
Turn 4: Able to use EMP the 2nd time.

...So EMP is in no way OP when it can be used by 2 hunters in 2v2 on the same team to pretty much kill off the opponent's healing capabilities, entirely? Also, there's an energy-removing primary core which is amazing in 2v2 and another energy-removing core on the gun. EMP most definitely needs an extra turn of cooldown/warmup to prevent abuse of it on the first turn to kill off mercs, BMs, and BHs.



Trifire -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 17:32:58)

lol merces have their support spamming build that doesn't require all that much mana. try to make a build that counters them. I never have a problem with those types of hunters.



santonik -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 18:13:58)

firts turn and bang
82 tech and 1 emp taking over 45 energy
its op move that way.
remember they can do that 2 times
1 round and 4 round. (45+45=90)
Tech buffing little too much this skill.
and this need 1 cooldown in start
Btw this move hit 100%.

i want hear emp users comment
and others too ;)



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 19:02:24)

Its a counter to builds that are too dependent on energy to win. Remember that energy draining takes a turn that could potentially be used to deal lots of damage or heal.

I love how using a skill is automatically abusing it if it's effective at all. Find a way to counter it. Energy drain back, or concentrate on dealing damage while we spend turns messing with energy.

Cyber Hunters need the skill. Its our only way to counter the insane damage output of the offensive skills of other classes.



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 19:17:54)

Hunters have 3 possible effective ways of removing energy: Energy shot gun core, energy storm primary core, and EMP. If I'm using the base energy amount against a 7 emp hunter or even a 3 EMP hunter, then within 1-2 EMPs they can take out ALL my healing. Also, reroute isn't as effective as before with the HP increments reduced, and static charge isn't worth using. Therefore, all classes have a pretty bad rate of regaining energy except from generator. Because of the fact that EP increments were reduced, more energy-removing cores were introduced, and EP-returning skills aren't nearly as useful as before, EMP proves to be an overpowered skill since once it's used, it's very hard to recover. CH tank focus builds are near unstoppable with good resistance and infernal bot in many situations because shadow arts protects them against strength abusers, malf protects them by increasing their deflection chance against support abusers, and they can take away your energy, heal loop with generator and an occasional static, and buff themselves with defense matrix. The only thing that can even have the potential of hurting a CH is either another CH or a TM.



Giras Wolfe -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 21:13:48)

If a player uses 2 EMPs AND Primary energy drainer AND sidearm energy drainer ASSUMING he doesnt want to have Azrael's will or Meteor shower, then he's spent FOUR turns draining your energy. Thats four turns you can attack him when he's not doing damage to you. Why would you even need a heal if your opponent hasn't hardly spent any turns attacking you?

Besides, you can use the drain core as well. Just drain his energy back so he can't heal either.

Threads like these are so annoying. You cant figure out how to counter a skill so you demand that they "ban" it.



Trifire -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 21:34:05)

The emp drain is only effective against stat abusers and tanks, otherwise against str builds it is useless.



sky222 -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 23:20:42)

How about it costs the amount of ep it takes,multiplied by 3/4 and rounded up
It would still be useful because it would be in the users ep plan but not the victims



Hun Kingq -> RE: Ban Emp OR Make EMP weaker (3/3/2013 23:50:56)

All this defending of a abused overwhelming EMP is a bunch of bull for one both hunter classes have a debuff skill, both hunter classes has low cost unblockable cheap shot, and both classes got high damaging unblockable massacre.

They don't need the abusive overwhelming EMP.

Use the generator core, use the generator core, use the generator core I am tired of hearing that bull, you use it then next round they use EMP again and they still have over half their energy you use that energy steal core then they use generator core so now they have more than half the energy. We heard the same thing with energy boosters.

If the Hunter can't win the match without draining all you energy they have no skill and in my opinion it equates to bullying.

Staff stated if a skill is abused and becomes a necessity to win it will be dealt with so here we have EMP that have been a problem since gamma but a bigger problem now.

I have seen one bounty Hunter with extreme tech and take away 60 points of energy, all energy attacks was useless and all he had to do was strike over and over again.

Exploding Penguin, A hunter used two EMP and both those cores on me than max massacre match was over.

4 turns with weapons and a staff that does less than 20 damage and they have over 100 points of health then on top of that they block every strike you lay while you block none with higher dex.

Sad thing the staff will never deal with Atom Smasher or EMP but they will make Plasma Cannon weak, make fireball even weaker, make Plasma Rain weaker don't do anything about blocking, its annoying when you have more dex you see no blocks, Armor core skills I have tried all 3, no additional blocking, no additional deflecting, no noticeable damage reduction on Critical strike even worse you can't stack them.

The only classes that have a chance against EMP is the ones with reroute and the ones with malfunction but the others are dead in the water without energy especially when they can't regain it. Then on top of that they either have the yeti to steal your weapons or the infernal android to get a sure victory.



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