Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (Full Version)

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Giras Wolfe -> Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/5/2013 23:58:00)

Hey guys, I'm here to solve some problems with the BH/CH skill tree. Lets start with the obvious

Shadow Arts

Problem: Everyone agrees blocks occur far too much in the game, even for high dex players because skills like ninja reflexes and shadow arts make the base block chance too high.

Solution: Make Shadow Arts give +5% Block Chance and +5% Connect chance at max. This would make it a more well rounded skill, as well as reducing the number of blocks given and received by bounty hunters and cyber hunters. It also makes more sense logically. A master of the shadow arts would not only be harder to hit, but also harder to dodge.

Cheap Shot

Problem: The skill is completely useless at high levels as there are many more effectual places to put stat points.

Solution: Nerf the skill at level 1, but make it much more effective at higher levels to become a viable build option. I would do this with 2 changes:

-Reduce critical chance to 20%.
-Make the defense ignoring scale thusly:
Level 1: Ignore 5% Defense
Level 2: 10%
Level 3: 15%
Level 4: 20%
Level 5: 25%
Level 6: 30%
Level 7: 34%
Level 8: 38%
Level 9: 42%
Level 10: Ignore 45% Defense

So the critical chance is reduced, but the % defense ignored is increased significantly at max to make it a more reliable build element.

Venom Strike

Problem: The skill is generally useless and underpowered.

Solution: Make the skill level in a more logical way, and make it more powerful but over a longer time frame. That would look like this:

-Deals 50% of strike damage on connect
-Deals X amount of poison damage over 5 turns

Poison Damage scales with level:
Level 1: 5 Total Poison Damage over 5 turns (1 per turn)
Level 2: 10 (2 Per turn)
Level 3: 15 (3 per turn)
Level 4: 20 (4 per turn)
Level 5: 24 (5 per turn, 4 on the final turn of poison)
Level 6: 28 (6 per turn for the first 3 turns, 5 per turn for the last 2)
Level 7: 32 (7 per turn for the first 3 turns, 6 per turn for the last 2)
Level 8: 35 (7 per turn)
Level 9: 38 (8 per turn for the first 3 turns, 7 per turn for the last 2)
Level 10: 40 (8 per turn)

This is a much more logical way for poison to function. First of all, its more intuitive to new players, because the entire damage it will do is displayed rather than the per turn value. Second, it's poison. It makes more sense for it to last a long time but do less per turn. Increasing the amount of total poison is justified because it takes longer for the skill to "pay off." Many battles will be over before the full 40 damage is applied. Thus an increase from total DoT from 33 to 40 is justified. Strike damage nerfed further to discourage abuse in strength builds.

Thoughts, everyone?




Dual Thrusters -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/6/2013 21:31:23)

imo poison is already balanced

i support cheap shot

for SH, wouldn't it be 5% block and 6% deflect? but still supported




Exploding Penguin -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/6/2013 22:19:02)

Poison doing 11 damage per turn is kinda necessary...8 damage per turn would make it harder to use. The main strategies applicable with poison include heavy hitting right before the last poison damage hits, making it much harder for your opponent to heal out of it. If you used 8 damage, it would be much harder to manipulate the poison damage to your advantage. However, the overall poison damage does need increasing, so I would support it if you changed it up to 4 turns instead of 5 turns, but kept around the same total damage during the effect.

I only think cheap shot needs like a 5-6% buff, as if it was 45% then it would be really worth investing given it has a good crit rate AND has an increased damage boost of around 12-15 against most opponents, while only costing 19 energy.

I actually suggested a particularly unique idea to replace shadow arts, while still benefiting hunters in many ways but removing the luck effect entirely. It included reducing energy cost of all moves, increasing energy drained from all cores/skills, and reducing the energy you lose when an opponent uses an EP remover on you by 10% at max level.




Giras Wolfe -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/6/2013 23:16:37)

^Maybe we should think of some new strategies to apply poison to, because, lets face it: the strategy you're referring to has NEVER worked.

40% at max could be more reasonable for cheap shot.

As for shadow arts, sure, a completely different effect would be better but if we decide to keep it as this kind of skill, then my change would be an improvement.

Noobernaut, you may be confused here - I'm not talking a deflection rate at all, rather an increase to connect chance. And I dont know where you're getting the 5%/6% thing. It should add up to 10% because thats the current % effect at max shadow arts.




xGreen Warriorx -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/7/2013 20:59:38)

Supported.

Your suggestions for shadow arts and cheap shot look great, but with the venom strike, I'd like to point out that having it last over 5 turns really encourages tanking. Maybe make it only 4 turns?





Giras Wolfe -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/7/2013 22:58:28)

4 turns is reasonable...I almost decided on that for my original suggestion.

But if we make it 4 turns we'll have to reduce the actual amount of poison. 10 damage per turn for 4 turns would be brutal.




King of Clubs -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/7/2013 23:01:11)

Id agree with everything but shadow arts, maybe set it to 7% max for both? But to be honest, I wouldn't support any changes until the massively OP support imbalance with mercenaries is corrected. ANY build that can 2-hit someone needs to be addressed as the first priority




ND Mallet -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/7/2013 23:20:29)

Way too much of a buff for Cheap Shot. Critical already ignores 50% and I'm not entirely sure how they would stack but we could be looking at a 95% ignore here and with strength builds, yeah this would hurt a lot.




King of Clubs -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/8/2013 1:56:23)

I was thinking about some alternatives to bloodlust's current function and came up with 3 potential alternatives.

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#1) You could keep the shadow arts boost the same but make it cost [skill level/2-(n-1)] when n≤3, with n being the current turn number.
This way, a user with lvl 10 shadow arts would lose a total of 11 energy by the 4th turn before the skill becomes free for the remainder of the fight.

In the skill level 10 scenario, the energy drain would occur as such:
turn 1: -5
turn 2: -4
turn 3: -3


---------
#2) You could make it an active skill, costing (shadow arts skill level) energy to active and lasting 4 turns

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#3) You could have the first 5 levels of the skill as they currently are, but then have levels 6-10 instead add an energy recovering effect based on damage dealt.

lvl 1: +1 block/stun resist chance
lvl 2: +2 block/stun resist chance
lvl 3: +3 block/stun resist chance
lvl 4: +4 block/stun resist chance
lvl 5: +5 block/stun resist chance
lvl 6: +5 block/stun resist chance, +6% of damage dealt converted to energy
lvl 7: +5 block/stun resist chance, +8% of damage dealt converted to energy
lvl 8: +5 block/stun resist chance, +10% of damage dealt converted to energy
lvl 9: +5 block/stun resist chance, +12% of damage dealt converted to energy
lvl 10: +5 block/stun resist chance, +14% of damage dealt converted to energy

Since this an energy recovering skill, you could also have it reduce 2 energy per turn, encouraging bounties to either adjust their build for higher str (possibly requiring to reduce their dex) or avoid the skill altogether as hitting low damage could quickly eat away at their energy.

Additionally, they should be able to dis-activate the skill by clicking on it and using 10 energy, in case they are fighting someone with def so high that they are likely to lose more energy than that over the course of the battle.
---------

These suggestions need balancing themselves so please suggest any changes to these formulas that you think would be more fair.




aurther13th -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/8/2013 3:50:05)

we already have 2 classes that gain energy when taking damage, tech mage an tact mercy. an cyber hunter already has a skill for converting damage dealt to energy. so that would seem like a waste. i think having either 5 block and 5 chance to hit or 5 block 5 deflect, percent, would be better off.




Drianx -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/8/2013 5:00:04)

Cyber Hunter doesn't really need a buff for cheap shot. A buff for Static Charge would be more logical - like energy regain is scaled by weapon damage only - just like atom smasher is.

In my opinion that suggestion for Shadow Arts would actually buff it.

I've always thought Poison is useless at low levels, and oyur suggestion makes it even weaker overall. Poison should deal enough damage per turn in order not to be nullified by Bloodlust for example. A low damage per turn is also less of a threat for a tank TLM build. So I'd say a minimum of 10 damage per turn is recommended for making it a good option.




King FrostLich -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/8/2013 6:51:37)

I don't think cyber hunters need a nerf or a buff. I was planning on making static charge as a passive but seeing the max massacre Ch with tons of mana, then that wouldn't be needed so in short, none of them needs buffing or nerfing as of now.




Venomification -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/9/2013 13:17:21)

not supported, because that would mean catastrofic hit to hunters, how about nerfing mercenaries taht have too much support, they need to decrease altillery strike alot, and make more points needed to get support up from 45+ like it would need 5 points, mages needs nefrs too, because 1st skill is overpowered, they do 70+ damage with low tech Fix taht




Demon Emperor -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/9/2013 13:37:42)

Shadow arts needs to be changed from 10% more block chance at max, like Giras is saying. Its just block spam, and its not good. Its also very annoying when you're fighting a hunter with 30 dex, and you have this build: Photobucket: BM Overload Dex Build (101 dex for those too lazy to click on the link), and the shadow arts hunter blocks you. Twice. -____-
I support the change to shadow arts. Dont have much of an opinion on the other stuff.




Midnightsoul -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/9/2013 14:23:05)

I'm gonna be honest since I'm generally any type of hunter or mage.

Here's my experience...

Malf and Smokescreen are way too strong.

There.




Vagaran -> RE: Some Fixes to Cyber Hunter/Bounty Hunter Skills (3/9/2013 14:26:32)

I support the Shadow Arts idea!




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