Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (Full Version)

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edwardvulture -> Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/24/2013 17:43:05)

This seems like a stupid question, but do we? If this game is truly balanced, then everything would be dependent on luck factors. Do we really want every class to have the same capabilities, or do we want our crazy/creative builds to have a chance? I for one, think that crazy/creative builds should work. The current Oped build is 5 bonus BH, that to me, is the one of the most un-creative builds ever and should be an option but it should not even be close to the best build.
I want stat placement and the utilization of skill trees and cores and strategy to decide the winner instead of an overused build with luck factors that everyone has. With the beginning of Omega, the effect of stat placement in build-making has been cut down by half. Also, skills in the skill tree have been devalued to the point where about 2 or 3 skills on it are actually used in every battle. The rest that are used are once-per-battle cores.
I think balance should be that everyone has a chance to win. Whether support merc, Tech Bh, Strength mage etc. I think stat progressions should go back up to the times of past phases(except life+ energy should get encumbrance starting from 2) and the progressions of skill trees be adjusted so that every skill is viable.
What do you think? Feel free to post anything on your mind regarding balance and gameplay.



TRizZzCENTRINO -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/24/2013 19:06:41)

yes now it is close to balance atleast it is more balanced compared to the start of omega and the rest of the delta phase.



Midnightsoul -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/24/2013 21:31:15)

I want it where that previously OPed builds or currently OPed builds are on par with the power of 5 focus builds.



Made 4 Sunny Days -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/24/2013 21:32:40)

Starting to feel pretty balanced in my opinion, focus is still the go to build for most classes, but you can be very good without running focus. Creativity does work and while tweaking builds can get expensive, its worth it. Overall I dont see one class being overpowered and with the addition of more and more cores for variety as well as new bots with special powers things are looking very promising

~Stay Sunny~



Stabilis -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/24/2013 21:52:06)

I am not sure anyone really understands WHAT balance is.

Balance is simply the practice of managing skills and stats in such a way that... 1 skill does not out-damage another skill or that 1 stat over-benefits another stat or that synergies in 1 class outdamage or outspeed the synergies of another class.



Leprechaun -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/25/2013 10:18:27)

If balance is
Mage: dex, dex, deax.
Merc: sup, sup, sup.

Then... yes -.-



Vagaran -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/25/2013 10:28:10)

The game is pretty balanced right now...at least it was better than when Omega started *cough*STR Merc*cough*.



RageSoul -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/25/2013 10:40:55)

quote:

Balance is simply the practice of managing skills and stats in such a way that... 1 skill does not out-damage another skill or that 1 stat over-benefits another stat or that synergies in 1 class outdamage or outspeed the synergies of another class.

Exactly , which is why the current "balance"(?) we have now isn't really balanced .



Exploding Penguin -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/25/2013 15:24:42)

In my opinion, balance can never be achieved, particularly with Omega. If luck was removed entirely, then it might be possible through lots of time and slight changes. If luck was made more abundant, or just so that debuffs don't increase block/defl chance, and no class has skills like shadow arts, then ED could also be nearing balance. However, balance isn't necessarily what I want from ED. What I really want is to have wins actually reflect one's skill. Even if I have more experience or am 3 levels higher than the opponent, they can still win because of the absurdly high luck-based effect rates right now.



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/25/2013 18:33:46)

It luck was removed and the game was entirely based on skill and strategy it would be boring. Having a game were everything during battle goes exactly according to plan without a luck or surprises added in their is boring IMO. Because ya know luck is the thing that helps some people beat certain really strong builds.



Ranloth -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/25/2013 18:39:12)

Luck = probability. Unless everything was 100% or 0%, luck will always be there. Remove luck cores, blocks and deflections will still depend on stats and x% chance will be to block and y% to not block. Probability or luck? Players will say luck, why? Recently I had 116 Dex build + Ninja Reflexes and difference between the enemy was ~70 Dex, so I had near-max block rate. So I block and what happens? It's called luck by players because they've lost whilst I won, obviously.



Renegade Reaper -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/25/2013 18:47:00)

luck should NOT be removed. that being said, a player with 0-0 res deflecting a player with 26-32 res twice in
battle is simply not acceptable.



nico0las -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/26/2013 16:08:33)

I've said it once before, it's not actually possible to balance a game. We will never reach "balance". It's not possible to reach perfection, so close enough will settle.
This game is at the peak of "balance" so far. It has almost all the qualifications to be balanced. Obviously there is a great portion of the players complaining about "luck",
but that's because they can no longer formulate a build to beat an opponent in three turns.

This game IS balanced, we need to stop looking at all the negative and look at it with a more impartial eye.



edwardvulture -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/26/2013 18:22:42)

My argument is that in the Omega Phase, buildmaking and strategy doesn't matter as much anymore but it should. I don't even remembering complaining about balance in Delta except the fact that varium players had a massive advantage (like 12 levels in stats) compared to nonvariums. My main complaint is why did they have to change the stat system so much.



Xendran -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 18:04:50)

It's not even close.



The Astral Fury -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 19:32:14)

Xendran and your not even close to what you want to achieve in your life you've lost stars in the sky that remain to shine, but don't because your doubt holds them back as you hold yourself back. You want starts to shine and you want to be a star with them start letting go of you past and hold on to a better future 10 years of bliss is better than 500 years of despair so stop seakking eternal life because every second you live in bliss is worth an eternity and love while it seems oerated in your young eyes may hold more secrets than you could ever know.

I know you'll make the right choice.



Nexus... -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 19:34:46)

@Xendran

Correct.

@Astral

You have done wayyyyy too many drugs since the last time I was on this forum.


Prophet



King Helios -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 19:35:49)

@astral Dafuq?

Really though, we should get close to balance, but not everything equal.



The Astral Fury -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 19:38:30)

Nexus, Helios- Wise words my friends sometimes it's best to judge the philospher and not the philsophy or even the other way around.

But do we want balance? We'll how can you take a boulder and pair it with a feather on a scale and expect them to weigh the same that my friends is the question.


EDIT: Open your eyes you may find that they are even darker then when their closed.....



King Helios -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 20:21:08)

@Astral

Well, when th philosopher sounds like he is higher than Everest, I will judge him/her.



Nexus... -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 20:24:18)

^ haha exactly my thought

Prophet



Hun Kingq -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 20:26:10)

Xendran, Is the only correct one here

5 focus build is only good for bots other than that it sucks everyone got constant critical damage on me even with their lower support a merc with tech at 86: 26-32 and mys dex at 91: 27-33 and my support a tad bit higher he got 50 Critical damage. With my tech at 156: 40-48 I shot a player with Plasma Cannon and having his tech at 51: 17-21 I finally got 56 Critical damage, that was because I used the Infernal Interdictor, Probably without that staff I would have only got 50 critical damage. Does everyone see the big difference in tech how one with less got more than the one with more tech shooting one person with higher defense that the one with lower tech. Or a tech mage with tech at 166: 42-51 can get +25% more damage on Plasma bolt and get critical damage more than Plasma Cannon, a skill with higher critical chance than Plasma bolt. or the fact I finally seen a high dex max multi shot bounty hunter get less than 10 points of damage on both myself and my partner so that shows me both Plasma Rain and multi shot sucks as multis while even with high dex Artillery strike can get 40+damage 50+ if it goes critical which it does quite often due to it improves with support.

Fireball opposite of Plasma bolt both tier one skills, the highest strength I could get meeting the stat requirements of any skills was 148: 25-30, the highest damage was 37 and only time I got 50+ is when a player was smoked but with Plasma bolt a player gets malfunctioned even with moderate tech the tech mage can get 50+ damage but the Blood mage does not have smoke or malfunction.

Assimilation was fine getting 100% of the weapon damage and it was good to increase the energy steal but when RabbleFroth ‏had an illogical idea of having Assimiltion improve with strength causing another energy stealing headache which can pave the way to another Over Powered strength class which the tech mage was never meant to be. Assimilation needed to be improved but should have never improved with any stats.

Nerfs have not been and will never be a solution to any problem the solution to the OP build problems is to create counter for players to use, create core skills, For example, a core skill to block massacre, a core skill to regenerate all or some energy each time and energy steal skill is used on you automatically.

Fix these equations
blocking
deflection
Critical chance
how rage increases because it increases a lot faster than ever before especially when a person just does regular strikes.

No, we don't want balance but we surely don't want anymore nerfs
Is the game close to balance, no, because similar or the same tier skills can give more battle damage than other similar or same tier skills.



Ranloth -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 20:34:39)

quote:

For example, a core skill to block massacre, a core skill to regenerate all or some energy each time and energy steal skill is used on you automatically.

Because that totally isn't OP... And you mention OP builds and nerfs? Maybe a core that makes BMs put all their skills in cooldown for 99 turns? Game breaking effects are game breaking, that's why they aren't in-game.



Nexus... -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 20:37:16)

quote:

that's why they aren't in-game.


Are you crazy? There are plenty of game-breaking mechanics currently in the game...


Prophet



Ranloth -> RE: Do we really want balance? Is this game even close to balance? (3/27/2013 20:39:01)

Definitely not a passive core that turns off Massacre (or any Ultimate skill) and gives you EP back if someone uses EMP, Atom, Assimilation or EP draining core on you. Mind you, I was talking about cores in particular, not mechanics.



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