Rage to balance luck (Full Version)

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Sipping Cider -> Rage to balance luck (4/13/2013 20:59:16)

What makes this game so unique for me is the rage bar. Not only does it spice up battles, it acts as a balance to luck. In a way, it is delayed damage. If you get blocked you gain more rage and thus do extra damage more quickly. It seems like luck is what lots of people are angry about, which means rage is not doing its job good enough as being a luck balancer. My suggestion is to have rage gain depend more drastically from luck, and more importantly on the chances of that luck.

rage gain on block or deflection= damage negated * support modifier * (100-%chance for block or deflection)/50

rage gain on critical = damage taken * support modifier*(100-%chance for critical) /50

So lets say someone has a 50% chance to block you and then blocks you. The rage gain would be multiplied by (100-50)/50 = 1

If that person had only had a 10% chance to block you instead the rage gain would be multiplied by (100-10)/50 = 1.8

This would not only help balance out luck, it would also mirror the players emotions. People seem to rage (on the forums) more often when they get blocked by someone who should have only had a 1% or so chance to block them.



Dual Thrusters -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/13/2013 21:40:43)

Interesting idea!



Goony -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 0:35:08)

Rage gain is already a counter to luck and adding a % based on the chance would over ride the support advantage that rage gain is calculated with. Not sure about this one, theoretically good, but may have some drawbacks when it comes to actual implementation!

Would your rage modifier be added before or after the support modifier. Multiplying by your adjustment would reduce rage based on block chance, I think this is opposite to what you wanted to achieve and dividing it by the modifier might work better ;)



goldslayer1 -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 7:24:27)

@Goony
how about rage becomes universal? as in, not in support.
this would however need a change to buff support if it happens.



Sipping Cider -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 9:09:14)

quote:

Would your rage modifier be added before or after the support modifier.


Forgot to add the support modifier in. Changed that in the original post now. And I do not think it matters which modifier is applied first, as both are just multiplication.

quote:

Rage gain is already a counter to luck


Yes, and I just think it is not doing its job well enough currently.

quote:

Multiplying by your adjustment would reduce rage based on block chance, I think this is opposite to what you wanted to achieve and dividing it by the modifier might work better ;)


Very good point. If I understand your suggestion correctly it would work like this :

rage gain on block or deflection= damage negated * support modifier * 100/%chance for block or deflection

rage gain on critical = damage taken * support modifier*100/%chance for critical

Only problem with that is if the chance for a crit is only 10% it would multiply the rage gain by 10, which seems almost too drastic. Maybe if rage gain on blocks/crits/deflections was just multiplied by 2?



goldslayer1 -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 9:58:16)

i think a better solution would be to detach rage from support and make rage a full on luck counter.

of you block you get no rage, if you crit you get no rage. if you deflect you get no rage.
if your blocked, you get rage (should be alot) if you get deflected you get more rage, if you get critted you get more rage.

more over, if your rage attack is blocked, your rage rolls over. if your rage attack is deflected then you get some roll over rage.

thats how i would change it.



Ranloth -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 10:01:52)

quote:

if your rage attack is blocked, your rage rolls over

How about no. "Zerker blocked? Meh, I still have energy for max DS! DS blocked? Oh I'll just use my Gun since the cooldown is over!" - use unblockable if that's a problem and be wary of deflections instead. At least it'll be guaranteed damage but less, rather than (at least 100%) and chance of getting a block.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 10:05:13)

quote:

How about no

how about yes?
your whining about a build that sucks. just like you whined about str. (now that sucks too)



Ranloth -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 10:11:06)

No. That was a mere example of what could happen. You know, some classes can abuse it if done well and not necessarily Merc build that has DS and Zerker combo.

"just like you whined about str. (now that sucks too)" - #BlameTrans2013 - Perhaps it was OP? I wasn't the only one.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 10:13:35)

quote:

Rage gain is already a counter to luck

as goony says, rage is to counter luck.
what good does rage do you if its nullified by luck?
ohh let me answer that for you. nothing.



Stabilis -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 10:38:09)

Rage is to counter luck? What madmen tales are these (not attacking whoever claims this)? Rage ignores Defense or Resistance in an attack, so I would think rage counters those with high defences; not luck.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 10:41:22)

@depress
it kinda does if u think about.
i can rage in the 3rd with any class if my first 2 turns im blocked.

this because u do less damage when being blocked thus giving u more rage.

plus i just quoted lol.



Stabilis -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 10:45:57)

^

Not you Gold, more towards the OP.



Sipping Cider -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 11:05:06)

@Depressed Void

Lol I hope I am not mad. Anyways, rage itself is not the counter to luck, its how rage is gained that counters luck.

It would be nicer if rage just multiplied your damage rather than ignore defenses, but over all it is extra damage that you get from negated damage and damage taken.


PS. What does OP mean besides Over powered?



goldslayer1 -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 11:12:10)

@sipping
Original Poster (thread starter)



Goony -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 11:22:53)

Rage gain is a counter to luck as it adds rage based on damage not done, so if my attack is 50 and my opponent has 25 defence I get 25*1.1 so 28 added to my rage if support is even on an attack that is not effected by luck. If that attack is blocked my rage gain is 50*1.1 so 55 is added to my rage bar. I did not say rage is a counter to luck, I said rage GAIN is a counter to luck, but sadly this is not a factor when your rage attack is effected by luck!

As I still play as a mercenary, and use a high BC, adrenaline and max berserker build... It's really rather sad how many times I am blocked on rage when I have higher dex and the major determining factor is a luck based skill, that all hunters seem to have maxed at the moment:p

Edit: 4 games in a row rage zerker blocked... I shouldn't post on forums :(



Master Smasher -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 15:25:39)

quote:

What makes this game so unique for me is the rage bar. Not only does it spice up battles, it acts as a balance to luck. In a way, it is delayed damage. If you get blocked you gain more rage and thus do extra damage more quickly. It seems like luck is what lots of people are angry about, which means rage is not doing its job good enough as being a luck balancer. My suggestion is to have rage gain depend more drastically from luck, and more importantly on the chances of that luck.

rage gain on block or deflection= damage negated * support modifier * (100-%chance for block or deflection)/100

rage gain on critical = damage taken * support modifier*(100-%chance for critical) /100

So lets say someone has a 50% chance to block you and then blocks you. The rage gain would be multiplied by (100-50)/100 = .5

If that person had only had a 10% chance to block you instead the rage gain would be multiplied by (100-10)/100 = .9

This would not only help balance out luck, it would also mirror the players emotions. People seem to rage (on the forums) more often when they get blocked by someone who should have only had a 1% or so chance to block them.


interesting idea, however I wouldn't make rage improved by support anymore since support mercs would just gain rage in a super rate, but great idea



True Romantic -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 15:26:43)

^ I second that



Elloisoul -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 16:00:42)

@master and what make the last thing that makes mercenary able to compete with other classes gone?



Master Smasher -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 16:03:59)

^
for once, they already gain rage fast enough (over 3-5 turns, they already have it), employing this idea will make them gain it in 2 turns maximum

PS:I'm talking about support mercs



Stabilis -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 17:01:25)

This overly benefits weapon spamming (specifically Strength and it's Strike), it calculates luck, and discourages the use of blocks and deflections just because the attack failed?

If the suggestion were to reduce luck or what luck does in battles I would support this. This however is overexerting the role of damage used to gain rage which in itself is a problem that would have to be balanced. I will not support this, sorry, but no.



Sipping Cider -> RE: Rage to balance luck (4/14/2013 18:03:56)

quote:

This overly benefits weapon spamming (specifically Strength and it's Strike), it calculates luck, and discourages the use of blocks and deflections just because the attack failed?

If the suggestion were to reduce luck or what luck does in battles I would support this. This however is overexerting the role of damage used to gain rage which in itself is a problem that would have to be balanced. I will not support this, sorry, but no.


This does benefit weapon spamming if your stats are higher than your enemy. So if player A has a low chance of blocking it encourages player B to to use block-able moves. If player A has a high chance of blocking, it discourages player B to use block-able moves.

Player A block chance------------rage change gained from block

10%--------------------------------0.8 more rage gained than old way
50%-------------------------------- same rage gained as old way
60%-------------------------------- 0.2 less rage gained than old way


This example works for crits and deflections as well. If someones build is built around being lucky, they should not get punished when they do get that lucky moment. What this does is help out players that are facing builds that are not built to be lucky but get lucky anyways.



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