Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (Full Version)

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LatinLover/Martini -> Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 0:57:47)

This is ridiculous the amount of losses I get from casters in juggernaut. Their plasma hits 40+ just without malfunction, even with energy shield in play. Most have max plasma and max overload. This really needs to be fixed.

Title lowercased - please do not create a post with a title purely containing uppercased letters, it is considered spam. -SMGS



Mother1 -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 1:17:54)

Well the sheep who fight against Jugs are no longer the weaklings they used to be. Omega has really buffed them up. Also Jug mode is suppose to be harder TBH.

But on another note Plasma bolt scales faster then every other move in the game since it only needs 3 tech to gain one point of power. Plus with the way omega is now it is a very potent attack.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 1:22:28)

considering that i have gotten 87%-90% with caster tech mage in 1 vs 1, im inclined to agree that plasma bolt's damage is too strong at the low lvls.

lvl 2 plasma bolt for me does 70 damage. which easily does 40 to most enemies and 50+ in rages.
also quite a cheap energy cost. a max bolt would be in the 85-90s range, but the cost is too high.

however just because i get those high %s doesn't mean every one can. im very tactical in my battle approach especially with this build.


then again its really all tech mage has.
focus tech mage isn't that great compared to the other classes focus builds.

however, take this advice from me if you want to do better vs casters.
take their energy. you said that they have max plasma bolt, thats 31 energy.
take their energy before they can use it.



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 10:47:43)

Not to be disrespectful Boss, but I disagree. Please don't nerf Plasma bolt.

It's the casters only real weapon if you do a caster build. If you're losing that much to them, try increasing your energy shield a few levels. Mages in Jugg are tougher than they used to be, but not an extreme problem.

GL LLover ;)





Ranloth -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:15:14)

Mercenaries say hello, without any sort of defence and HA being ignored completely on Rage. ;)

Increase Energy Shield? Yeah, Rage cuts through it, you realise that, right? No matter how high it is, versus Rage, it'll not be as efficient. If Lvl 5 skill can deal 70'ish damage for mere cost of 21 Energy then something is wrong. Casters are the only real weapon for a Caster build? Seems like you're making a poor Caster build then. Even without Assimilation, I could make many good ones with old Plasma Bolt (prior to the buff) and just that. With Assimilation, you can put it together with SC for high damage + Lvl 5-6 Bolt to be used on Rage.

If it's the only viable, you're doing it wrong. Don't think how it affects you, think how it affects others as well. I'm pretty sure that if Bolt was changed from Tech/3 to Tech/4 (for damage) then Casters would still be as viable but a bit weaker, at all levels (since Bolt is dangerous at lower level, almost impossible to beat). Dex builds can do Multi + Overload build for 1v1, Tech have Bolt + SC or you can bo Bolt + Assimilation + Malf instead & decent DA (so it's not sheer Tech abuse).



goldslayer1 -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:35:22)

i think rage is more of the problem here.



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:36:11)

quote:

Increase Energy Shield? Yeah, Rage cuts through it, you realise that, right? No matter how high it is, versus Rage, it'll not be as efficient. If Lvl 5 skill can deal 70'ish damage for mere cost of 21 Energy then something is wrong. Casters are the only real weapon for a Caster build? Seems like you're making a poor Caster build then. Even without Assimilation, I could make many good ones with old Plasma Bolt (prior to the buff) and just that. With Assimilation, you can put it together with SC for high damage + Lvl 5-6 Bolt to be used on Rage.

If it's the only viable, you're doing it wrong. Don't think how it affects you, think how it affects others as well. I'm pretty sure that if Bolt was changed from Tech/3 to Tech/4 (for damage) then Casters would still be as viable but a bit weaker, at all levels (since Bolt is dangerous at lower level, almost impossible to beat). Dex builds can do Multi + Overload build for 1v1, Tech have Bolt + SC or you can bo Bolt + Assimilation + Malf instead & decent DA (so it's not sheer Tech abuse).



Fine. Lets just nerf the whole game to where everyone does 5 -8 damage per turn. That sounds like a lot of fun Trans.

PS. For the record, I have a level 23 bounty hunter and I have no problems with casters in 1v1 or 2v2. Sure they're a challenge, but not OP to where they can't be beaten.
Latin Lover is talking about in Jugg battles at higher levels, i.e-lvl 35, where I've had no problem with casters as BH, CH, TLM, TM or what I am currently, BM.







Ranloth -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:38:02)

Right, so bumping it down by roughly 7-8 damage will make it fall from 40+ to 5-8? Oh you. Let's give BMs a mix of BloodLust and Reroute but stronger because we're so UP. We deal 3 damage per turn so we deserve it, whilst you Casters are roaming free being OP. Sounds fair? No.



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:41:30)

quote:

Right, so bumping it down by roughly 7-8 damage will make it fall from 40+ to 5-8? Oh you. Let's give BMs a mix of BloodLust and Reroute but stronger because we're so UP. We deal 3 damage per turn so we deserve it, whilst you Casters are roaming free being OP. Sounds fair? No.



If they're so OP be a caster then and see what your win % is. I have a feeling you will change your tune.

And you're not talking to a noob, I completely understand most of the battle mechanics and how to build.







Sensei Chan -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:42:26)

Sorry But I Must Agree With Mother1 Juggernaut Is Now Alot Harder To Win Now. I Used To Get A 96% Win Ratio In Delta. Now When I Was On The Leader-Board In Omega I Had A 64% Win Rate And I Haven't Changed The Build Since Delta So Its Obviously Not The Build That Has Changed Its The Fact The People We Face In Juggernaut Have Got More Stats Than In Delta And The Fact There Is 2 Of Them Also Makes Them Unstoppable Because They Are Using Alot Of Unstoppable Builds Like Tech Mage Plasma Bolt And Mercenary Support Builds I Often See Tech Mage With 36-44 Tech And Mercenary's With 26-32 Support.I Can Often Beat The Mage's But The Support Builds I Struggle With Because I Am Blood Mage Right Now And I Have No Defense Matrix But I Have Energy Shield And The Mercenary's Will Have Low Defenses But Often Have Max Armor Making Them That Bit Much Harder To Deal With Than The Mage's.



Ranloth -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:43:05)

Sorry, I don't switch for power. Waste of Varium (or Credits) if I know there will be a nerf at some point. Also, goldslayer1 has kindly provided some of his own data, so I'll go by that. Saves me Varium + I can trust him on that one.



King Helios -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:44:02)

As a level 35 BH (like Latin), I am on leaderboards today.

My win %? 82.2%. Not bad for a 35, eh? ;)



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:46:29)

quote:

Sorry But I Must Agree With Mother1 Juggernaut Is Now Alot Harder To Win Now I Used To Get A 96% Win Ratio Now When I Was On The Leader-board In Omega I Had A 64% Win Rate And I Haven't Changed The Build Since Delta


I'm looking at the Jugg LB right now. A third of the people are in the 95% win range. Most of them are in the 80% range.

As Trans would say...
quote:

quoted by Trans
you're doing it wrong.
Seems like you're making a poor build then.






Ranloth -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:50:15)

Way to go, take words out of the context. If you've paid some attention, that quote was to your statement saying Bolt is the only viable skill for a Caster build. Next time, try not to set people against me by taking things out of their context and using it for your advantage.

Also, everyone knew their ratios would go down in Omega due to loss of enhancements and F2P being able to compete. And after changes to Juggernaut, we were told it will be much harder rather than what we've had in Delta with pushovers.



Melbourne -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 11:52:58)

The majority of the time the LB currently is at 75ish% and as a tactical mercenary, I have 0 problems with caster. No physical defense, take their energy then robot and the likes... I'm fine with casters and I don't want another nerf to TMs. It's not very fair as they are struggling otherwise. My ratio hasn't changed since omega :l



STRUT MY MUTT -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 14:26:39)

@Trans
sorry bro, but it wasn't as insulting as you implying that a seasoned veteran like myself don't know what's up. I'll refrain from such tactics.

On topic, no what you say, a high tech caster doesn't have a whole lot of other strong moves and are easily devastated by energy drains. Most TM's struggle to keep a decent battle record.

They don't need a nerf. My 2







Exploding Penguin -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 16:40:51)

The problem with plasma bolt and lots of skills similar to it is the fact that defense/resistance is based off of units, and not off of a percentage, which makes it very hard to tank since the amount of stat points to increases resistance by 1 is more than the amount required to increase plasma bolt's damage by 1. In my opinion, the best way to fix this is to reduce the scaling rate of the skill, and to make it so that it's +3 damage per skill point invested. This will put more of an emphasis on using higher levels of plasma bolt, which will then result in making it harder for the caster to use plasma in conjunction with assimilation.



ScarletReaper -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/23/2013 19:04:42)

No. Just no. Plasma bolt is ok honestly. Strong, but not exactly op'd. In jugg yes they are hard to beat, but it's not because of plasma bolt. The problem is the lower health we are stuck with, added with the higher stats the low levels can get now. It wasn't a problem in delta because it was easy to reach 110 health without sacrificing defense. Now we can barely hit 90. Back in delta you'd be lucky to have +25 to tech and +7 or 8 to the rest of your stats as a low level free player. Not the case anymore. low levels have gotten stronger while we were made weaker. I really think we need 2 health points per stat point again for this very reason. Also part of why focus tlm's are running wild right now. They weren't a problem in delta.



Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/24/2013 3:31:51)

quote:

Increase Energy Shield? Yeah, Rage cuts through it, you realise that, right?

It does not.
Only 45% which makes a buff to E shield still usefull.

quote:

In my opinion, the best way to fix this is to reduce the scaling rate of the skill, and to make it so that it's +3 damage per skill point invested. This will put more of an emphasis on using higher levels of plasma bolt, which will then result in making it harder for the caster to use plasma in conjunction with assimilation.

Agreed penguin.
Due to the faster scaling of Plasma it is OP in comparison to the scaling of Resistance.



ansh0 -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/24/2013 11:18:13)

So many ways to counter casters... take their EP, AZ's Will, E shield, technician, heal, poison...


Still complaining?


If you nerf PB, TM need a SERIOUS BUFF.



Ranloth -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/24/2013 11:25:09)

If Bolt is required to win, there is a serious issue with the skill. :V You shouldn't be forced to use a certain skill to win.

I think you're underestimating Multi + Overload. As BM, they worked fine but I was weak to EP drain so I couldn't use it more than once (but got HP back instead). Since TMs can forgoe all weapon offence, they can pump up their defence + HP and use Reroute (and Assimilation if skill points permit) to get EP back and loop for Heal + Overload at least.



EpicIsEpic -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/24/2013 11:38:07)

plasma had a nerf please not again



Ranloth -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/24/2013 11:39:56)

Higher EP cost isn't a nerf? It's lower than initial one which was 33 EP. Lower than the original but higher than the one after the initial reduction. Apart from that, it's received a buff in Delta.



goldslayer1 -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/24/2013 12:04:59)

quote:

If Bolt is required to win, there is a serious issue with the skill. :V You shouldn't be forced to use a certain skill to win.

you pretty much summed up focus.



axell5 -> RE: Casters. Need. To. Be. Stopped. (4/24/2013 14:12:22)

with focus you can use all skills and you need a mix of many to win



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