The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (Full Version)

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Arthur -> The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 9:35:56)

Hey guys,

So Jars gave me permission to make this thread and so here it is.

In this thread, one can discuss all there is to discuss about this new System that has been implemented in these boards. How has this helped us? How has this done badly? Basically, anything and everything.

Additionally, the discussion that started in the Q&A can now be safely channelled here without fear of de-railing any other thread.


Please refrain from displaying outright hate here. This is NOT a Hate Thread.

Please keep all your criticism constructive and helpful to other RPers.

If you think you have a suggestion, let us know here.

I am not willing to let this thread turn into a cesspool of hate and anger. People will always have their difference of opinion, it's something they work out. The Mods will be informed via PM should any discussion flare into something bad.

If you ask, "Why this thread?" Then the only reply will be, "This new system has drawn some very interesting responses from RPers and so it's fairly deserving of such a thread."

And so my ranting is done.
Discuss..!!!

There is a big difference between giving constructive criticism and just giving criticism. The system that exists is what has been determined as best practice at this time. If you don't like it, you are welcome to not like it. However, constructive criticism is considered things that will help make the current system stronger, not to change it. If you are interested in having the system here changed, you are welcome to keep those comments to yourself until such time as the moderating team feels they have given this system it's fair due. Until then, any criticism should be geared towards how the current system can be made better.



Legendium -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 10:57:37)

Moar AKs. The understaffed situation is slowing us down by a lot. If not more AKs, at least work out a group of RP tutors who can review the bios and posts.

Secondly, although most of the Academy is a great addition, the fact that we need to make Teaser Trailers is a wee bit unnecessary, in my opinion. Personally, just showing that you've worked with someone is enough. But then again, if the AKs think that's for the best, it probably is. At the very least, giving as clear a definition as possible as to what a teaser trailer is on the first post would be good.



jerenda -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 13:22:05)

I think the new system is interesting. While I understand that a lot of people don't like it, I like it because it requires a high level of quality and a certain amount of dedication to pass, and it guarantees that those who pass will be good, strong RPers. I didn't really like having to deal with people who couldn't "speak" (type) properly, and I didn't like having to send people back three, four times to make new bios in the old system.

There are some flaws, as with any system, but with time they will be smoothed out. There's a lot of focus on the flaws right now, because change is hard, but I think the benefits are worth it, as long as you're really patient with the mods. (Applying for things as soon as humanly possible and long before you actually intend to RP is also a good strategy. ^_^)

But, again, I really like knowing that the people I play with know what they're doing. I don't have to explain bunnying or godmodding and I won't ever have to tell someone that I can't understand them. :) These forums are [one of] the best RPing forums I have ever seen, and I think standards are important enough to sacrifice a little convenience for.



dethhollow -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 17:40:11)

I'm among the group of people that don't like the new setup. While I see what they're going, it only works to deter people from coming to the RPA. Say you're new to RPing. You come to the RPA not sure wether it's right for you and post your verry first bio. It's probably not verry good, since you're new to RPing.... Then the inactivity of the mods means you'll be waiting quite a while before it's even judged, let alone accepted. Then, if you're still intrested in RPing, there's another stage of waiting to go through before you even get to make your first post.

Really, everything I disagree with about the new RPA stems down to Mod inactivity or the process being too strict for new members. In fact, it doesn't even cover basic interaction, just an intro post and forming a bio.... So writers who are used to controlling every character can get through all 3 steps and still end up not understanding godmodding or bunnying, which kind-of negates the point of even having an RP for any reason other than excluding newer members, which are kind-of necessary for forming a growing community.

Sorry if this is stuff everyone's sick of hearing... the mods probably think I'm a troll after how much I've talked about this. But this is such a great chance to get new people into RPing.... I'm passionate about the AE RP section, I mean, this is where I first learned about RPing. If the process is ment to attract great RPers from other sites and the golden era, then there needs to be some incentive. Everything on the forums is the property of AE, the RP section is rated PG, it's just set up as a place more for beginners who are new to this. There's already a world to work with, magic's setup with laws and rules already, and you can stumble across here just by being a fan of the games looking through the forums.

Quite frankly, the thought that the AE-owned PG RP section is expecting to get a constant supply of experienced RPers to keep the community going is one that just completely baffles me.... I mean, everyone here is a returning RPer or from the golden age. How long will it be before people realistically begain to move on and become inactive?

The RPA IS what holds this entire section of the forums together, long-term. It has to be as clear and efficient as it can possibly be, while still actually showing that the new members know how to RP. It's like the tutorial level in a game where you get introduced to the mechanics and experienced players can just be like "Oh, I know how to do that" and breeze through.... But new players still have to learn what the heck they're doing for later on. If the level's not that clear and becomes frustrating, you won't really want to go to play through the rest of the game, you know? First impressions really count and all..........



TJByrum -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 19:12:21)

I want to say that the new system is, as opposed to popular disagreements, a good idea. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out as good as some of us had hoped.

Nevertheless, I respect the mods that have done this because it makes sure we're all 'trained' before moving on. No more one-liners, no more pesky and annoying people posting randomly.

We just need more AK's.



superjars -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 19:48:35)

I don't disagree with the comments here, but it's important to note that none of us who work in forum moderation have magic wands that can simply pull AKs out of thin air. I'm always on the boards, bouncing around and searching out new talent for the AKs, which, in turn means I have less time to read through bios and the rest of the RPA.

The process of the RPA has been looked at and discussed ad nauseam by the moderating crew and we've made some changes along the way, as well as continuing to evaluate things. At this time, we are happy with the process itself and see all pieces of it as integral to the whole. That may change in the future, but it is true for right now.



Master K -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 20:05:06)

@Super: Here, use this. :)



dethhollow -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 20:16:50)

@ TJB
quote:

We just need more AK's.


But then you'd still have the issue that you'd get writers in the RP boards that might be unfamiliar with collaberating a story or the type of character interraction that takes place while RPing....

============================================================================
Personally, if this is ment to be a RPA, I think the best idea would be first to get rid of the teaser trailer thing.... The OoC would just be the OoC, not a full-fleged step in the RPing process. I've been in RPs that completely ignored the OoC (after the first post, of course) and only used it for major coming plot points and accepting bios and it works out just fine. Cuts down wait time and gets people into the actual RP faster. Then, I would lessen the word limit on the first post. You have to keep in mind that some people are just casual writers. Usually, my AE RPA posts were about 2 paragraphs. Enough to get the point across without having to force your writing of use pointless filler....

Finally, and most importaintly, after cutting out the second phase, I think it would be good to only allow people into the RP boards after having ___ many posts interracting with another character. It doesn't matter if this takes as long to grade, since they're actually in the RP now and learning by experience.... Which is much better than waiting on your idea for a post to be approved/denied in the second step while the player slowly forgets the RPA's even here. Besides, this way you actually know that you're getting RPers that know the basis of RPing in the RP boards and if they bunny or something, we can all push them in the right direction about what is acceptable and what's not. That may not sound that big, but considering there's outlines that have sat for nearly a month without being touched... and with this method they're already learning how to RP so...............

"But Deth...." You may wonder, "what if the guy you're interacting with dissapears?" Well, that's a real-world problem that happens in RPs all the time. It's something players have to learn how to deal with anyways.

"But what will the Mods type to approve/disaprove the posts? You can't expect them to read EVERYTHING!!!" I don't expect them to rate the posts, just check if they're consistant or not.... And if the Mods can't Moderate posts, then it won't get any easier when the RP boards start moving.... Besides, they have to check posts anyways.

"What if... uhhh....... GODMODDING!!! BUNNYING!!! It'll happen ALL over aggaiinnnn!" Looking at the current system.... It's better that we know they know better now than if they have to figure it out in the RP boards. That's what we're trying to prevent, right?

"So I CAN'T Speed-run the process?" Trust me, find an active RPer to interract with and this will go SOO much faster than it will waiting for your OoC concept to be approved. Stop and think about that... you're waiting for your first idea for your idea to be approved. This way we actually... you know.... KNOW people will be able to effectively RP instead of just reading the intro to a story and knowing they were once a member of the RP boards. Just because you can wright does not mean you're able to RP when multiple ideas and characters are involved and there's no garentee you know what'll happen.

"So I get to try out RPing faster, I know the accepted people know not to bunny and such, AND there's no need to write a lame-ing chapter about some guy I just now thought up?" That is a REALLY wierd term to use for it, but ideally. In theory it should work.... I mean, compared to the process that has a completely unnecessary step keeping people from actually figuring out wether this is thier thing or not, it sounds pretty good. You might be kept waiting through all 3 steps and joining the RP boards to find out that you're just not into the process as a whole. I mean, it could happen. Maybe you expect it to be just like writing a story and are caught off guard by the inconsistant direction of the plot. This way, you just have to wait through 1 step before you start RPing and figure out if you like it or not.

"Wow! It's like some sort of technical magical legal miracle! *drools slowly* Can I touch your shirt?" HAHa haaa.... Ahhh, get outta here random voice........ You're really starting to wierd me out now.... "NEVAH! YOLO!!!" Oh gosh... WHAT HAVE I DONE!?!?!?

*3 hours later*

And that's that.... *hides shovel*



DaiTigris -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/23/2013 21:19:47)

First off I just want to thank all the Mods and the ArchKnights of the Role playing boards for their hard work they have done to make this a better place for role players. It's not easy to find time for this kind of stuff but I want to say for myself that I'm grateful for the time that they've put aside to work and listen to us.


quote:

Say you're new to RPing. You come to the RPA not sure wether it's right for you and post your verry first bio. It's probably not verry good, since you're new to RPing....


Now as someone who is still pretty new to Rping I haven't found that to be the case so far. Yes my own bio for the first time did have some mistakes, but what I liked about this process is that my mistakes where pointed out to me and I had a chance to fix them. To be honest one of the biggest struggles I've had during this process was not because of the Mods or AKs not responding, but sudden inactivity drops while collaborating with other Rpers in step two. It was honestly hard for me not because they just suddenly disappeared, but to leave those people behind after working so hard with them to create a fun interaction. I know that it's hard to predict the unpredictability of others but I've come to terms with the fact that you sometimes, even when you don't want to just leave it, you just have to do your best and wait for the next opportunity.





Arthur -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/24/2013 4:06:17)

While I agree with the fact that we need more AKs and Mods, Jars already said that he requires time to select them.

However, keeping in mind what you guys said, we can't be hasty in this matter. It has to be an RPer, not an Out of Board forumite who does not understand RPing mechanics and the like.

Anyways, moving on, about the Steps.

I am sorry but the Second Step feels the weaker of the three. Here's why:

1. Knowledge of OOC etiquettes cannot be developed outright and in order to adhere to some Step. It develops overtime and by interacting with other RPers over reasonably long periods of time. Additionally, one needs to know how the other person roleplays in order to truly have his character develop a bond with the other. How do I know this? Well, I created and hosted Vanguard Academy the contents of which are 90% collaborated.
If I remember correctly, we were almost 15 pages into the OOC when the RPers started to plan how they would collaborate. I am really sorry but I refuse to accept the fact that two people with unknown RPing backgrounds would meet, develop collaborative capabilities by just exchanging 10 to 15 posts and get it right. I absolutely refuse. Think what you will of me.

2. The concept of Teaser Trailers is to some extent, vague. About 85-90% of the applying RPers did not grasp what a teaser trailer is and how its supposed to be executed? What should they put in it? Any known word limits? How many paragraphs? The technicalities.

Statistics?

48 RPers graduated from Step 1.
16-17 graduated from Step 2.
11 graduated from Step 3.

A little more than 1/3rd every Step. And only 6 RPers didn't graduate from 2 onwards. What about the 31 that did not graduate from 1 to 2?

That must mean that something is not right with Step Two. Mustn't it?
Perhaps half the people lost interest or didn't like the general way of things.

I am sorry but I'll agree with the general crowd and say that the Second Step is pretty much pointless. OOC talk can't be defined by artificial linearity. It's free-flowing, there's a lot of feelings, there's a fun factor in it.

Lastly, knowing that even after fully graduating, one might not get the hosting privileges is like taking away the only motivating factor that could've pushed each and every one of those 48 RPers through all those Steps.




Zephyrial -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/24/2013 9:17:29)

What about a buddy system of some sort? Link up the newbies with trustworthy graduates, who'll help them through and grade their work? If I've learned one thing for being here so long, it's that we love to critique people's bios, and speaking as one just starting the academy process, I'd feel just as comfortable having any of our more experienced RPers supervising me as I would a Mod or AK (probably more comfortable, come to think about it...)

Set up a thread, let people offer themselves up as teachers, take some of the strain off the AKs and Mods. Obviously, their input is appreciated above all others -they're the best of the best after all - but might help to avoid any stagnation, at least.

As for the second section... I can't comment. It does seem rather chaotic, but I accept the idea behind it.



dethhollow -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/24/2013 9:59:20)

@ Zeph
quote:

What about a buddy system of some sort? Link up the newbies with trustworthy graduates, who'll help them through and grade their work?


That's actually a pretty good idea.... We'd have to be sure to pick the people who had the most know-how about how to RP, such as people that are returning RPers or people who have proven themselves on the RP boards.... Prehaps we should just voulenteer active RPers at random? After all, in the old RP threads, there was a lack of people who were signing up for the RP boards because they didn't believe they were good enough to move on. Something tells me that we might come across a similar issue....



Legendium -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/24/2013 10:23:10)

I agree with the buddy system, but all in all, there are a few dangers behind it. The mods have set standards that not everyone is on par with, so the mods would probably have to pick out the buddy system people. Additionally, even if we were made buddies, only AKs/mods have the power to edit other's posts. So unless there's a new thing made, similar to AKs, but limited to one single thread, we'd be back at square one of "Not enough AKs." I understand it will take time, but the temporary stop would be worth it.



dethhollow -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/24/2013 11:06:14)

quote:

Additionally, even if we were made buddies, only AKs/mods have the power to edit other's posts.

The experienced RPer could PM the player if the post isn't up to standards. And when the post is ready, they could PM the Mod to edit the post and move them ahead. It saves time with posts that are not ready and saves the time the Mods have to take to read and judge the post... they would just have to get on a computer and edit the post which takes about 5 minutes, so...... If it's too much for the Mods to sit down every few days, read a PM, and take about 5 minutes to edit a post then that's just might maybe be a little bit of a major problem beyond being understaffed.

I say anything that can speed up the process or help people learn how to RP is a good idea.



superjars -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/24/2013 17:54:31)

quote:

While I agree with the fact that we need more AKs and Mods, Jars already said that he requires time to select them.

However, keeping in mind what you guys said, we can't be hasty in this matter. It has to be an RPer, not an Out of Board forumite who does not understand RPing mechanics and the like.


Quoting the wrong thought process here. An out-of-board person CAN be found and used. It happens all the time. RP isn't some elitist society it seems certain people desire it to be. To be honest, to have an outsider who is extremely creative, a good writer and a wonderful, people friendly person, would be a great thing. They wouldn't be coming in here with certain biases and demands, whining and crying. They would be fresh and ready to go, a clean slate that would be looking at all this with a fresh perspective.

There are SO many assumptions and crying going on that really disturbs me. As someone who has to deal with kids on a regular basis, the more they cry, whine, complain and throw fits, the less likely I am to honour them in whatever they are complaining about. Because, to be honest, it all sounds exactly the same after a while and all that tells me is that they are being selfish little brats who have NO clue what it is that they are asking really means for me.

The way some of you are acting, you make it look like you are some kind of overlord who has a whip out ready to strike your slaves (RP staff) because they cannot move fast enough for you, perfect enough for you, or exactly how you want them to.

That is not the case and the attitudes some of you have are atrocious. For people who desire to make things "better" you are on the fast track to making it WORSE.

Oh, and all this "we" talk seems a bit presumptuous. There is no "we", so I am not sure what you are all on about. The RP staff are the ones who make decisions, and ultimately, the admin of the forums above them. So many people are saying "we" need to do this, "we" will make the decision for that. There is no "we", unless you are referring to the royal we in grammar that is indicative of the actions of those above you.

Make all the suggestions you want. But, entering this with the attitude that only you know best is not going to win you any points. So, perhaps some of you need to take a step back and remember a few key things about this forum.

The process of revamping the forums is a multi-step one. The first step is to create a process by which people who already know how to RP can make their way into the RP boards. Teaching people how to RP who have never done it before is something with a much broader scope and which requires a lot more work. Is it in the future plans for the forum? Yes. Is it likely to come soon? No. The goal currently is to create a stable community of users and train some hosts to run RPs for them. Other stuff comes later.

To address a common criticism I'm seeing: there is nothing difficult or mysterious about the outlines asked for in step 2. If you are unable to take the ideas you talk to others about in the OOC and condense it into a short set of statements about where you want your post to go, then I would strongly suggest that you head over to L&L for some training as a writer. It is as important for an RPer to be organized in their thought process as it is to be creative with their character and world. Regardless of whether you like it or not, the RP staff have deemed it an important part of progressing into the RP. If something about it is tangling you up, that is what the RPA Q&A thread exists for and what the #RPBoards channel is for on IRC.



TJByrum -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/24/2013 19:19:52)

Sorry Superjars. I guess some of us wasn't ready for the switch; a lot of people would have rather kept the original boards rather than switch. Surely that makes sense to everyone.

But as I've stated before Superjars, while I was a bit put down by the switch initially, I've come to understand its meaning. I want to thank you, TD, and Ryu for the work your put into this. For the time that you spend to review everyone's bios, teasers, and IC posts (which I believe would be quite a task).

If it means anything to you, please take your time and ignore the rest of us who complain. I know I have complained in the past, as I often to, and have been somewhat of a pest to you as well as to several moderators on the forums.

As for everyone else, let us accept this switch and just let things take it toll. No matter how much we complain we're not going to change anything; besides, there is no reason to change anything. Jars and team has put up a good system.

Again, sorry.



TormentedDragon -> RE: The Revamped RP Boards: Feedback & Suggestions~ (4/25/2013 11:27:41)

Please keep future posts on topic - suggestions and discussion thereof of ways to improve upon the current system as it stands. Discussion of previous events in this thread is neither on-topic nor necessary.



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