RE: to make the game more strategic. (Full Version)

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King FrostLich -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 4:39:24)

quote:

ill be honest, defence builds are totally torn to shreds still. i have a very defensive build, and i get critted really frequently, in two turns i am down to 17 health. no big deal, whip out a heal, carry on. except in 2 turns, somehow Players with 17 support have gained maximum rage


That is possible because if 2 power attacks are blocked, it's possible to rage in 2 turns not because of the support but because of the damage that adds to the rage bar. Take into account that a level 35 person has a total of 128 rage points. A strength user can possibly get rage in this manner such a mercenary and tactical mercenary doing double strike and a normal strike if both attacks get blocked. Not only this, the damage you deal to them also gives a small portion of rage in their rage meter. Shown in this example:


You(Defender)

Defense: 25 points
Resistance: 12-15


Enemy(Attacker: Level 35)

Primary: 58 damage(+36 primary)


Let's say in this situation, you will skip all your turns not attacking the mercenary. On the first turn he uses max double strike(multiply weapon damage by 1.42 with 36 and add 22 as base strength equals 74 damage) but you block it, he gains 82 rage points(Note that you gain 110% of rage from the damage blocked). Next turn, he strikes for 58 damage but you block again therefore, he gains 64 rage points. Overall, the strength user has gained 146 rage points in total overshooting the rage meter so by the next turn, he can use rage at you therefore it is also possible for them to rage in 2 turns if you are also going too defensive against strength users and such hyper-offensive builds.


N.B: Rage Meter Formula of a player is (40 + [2.5 * player level])

quote:

Rabblefroth is going to make a change this week that I think will help and it's to do with focus. This should bring robot damage back in line with other damages and lengthen battles a little bit.


I'd like to see this. But I hope it won't be too hurtful for robots.



toopygoo -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 7:28:01)

goony: i think that is a much better idea: the ability to only use it once, but whenever you want instead of being forced to use it. That adds so much strattegy for 2v2 as well, and breaks the problem in jugg, when your solo.



kaiseryeux21 -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 7:36:06)

looking forward to these changes this week. I hope this time, some (if not all) important factors to be adjusted will be put to its proper place. i won't make any comments until the update is done. Might as well changed class after the update^^ lets see.



Stabilis -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 8:56:21)

quote:

Goony:

-but if I was to make any comment about them it would be along the lines of moving malfunction scaling from support to dexterity.


Finally something I have been on about for months regarding Malfunction-Smokescreen balance. Oh, and when you do this you can finally consider Technician scaling by Support like all buffers do.



Goony -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 9:17:45)

@DV, I cannot guarantee anything other than to say that anything I say is still not implemented and it is subject to what the developers see fit to do to balance the game. All I am trying to do is keep you guys updated and get some feedback about what might be implemented... It's better to hear the screams before something is changed than after and at times there will be a very valuable concern raised by the players!

I know Rabblefroth reads this forum and does take forward some of the issues discussed here and quite often there are overlapping issues. I like a lot of the comments in this thread, but please don't get my comments confused with the developers. What I say might not happen and what you ask me to get implemented is also not assured ;)

But, that's not to say you shouldn't stop discussing it because although I have played on an almost daily basis for the last 3 and a bit years I often only view the game from 1 red eye :)



toopygoo -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 15:38:58)

debuff should be based on dex, like smoke is on tech. they change overload to support instead. The fact the tech mage has the ability to debuff in the area it can multi in, or do the most damage, makes it OP no matter what you say. you build it right, you can destroy almost any other build. the only reason support builds dont win 100% of the time is cause they cant debuff.



Mother1 -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 17:21:40)

Goony changing malf to dex would bring out a new wave of dex abusers. They will have overload, plasma rain, Malf and Technician to cover weak resist. There will be just too many moves that work with dex and dex abusers will have high block chance to boot. It will cause more harm then good.



toopygoo -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 17:34:53)

yeah, so you cahnge the cost of other things: make overload increase with support.
make deadly aim increase with a percent of tech instead of strength
malfunction no longer falls into that category if it relies on dex, and plasma relies on tech

the problem is: you can decrease the efficiency of smoke, but not malf. hardly anyone can decrease support based attacks, and even those byb just a tad. (most ive seen is 23)



goldslayer1 -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 17:40:22)

quote:

Goony:

-but if I was to make any comment about them it would be along the lines of moving malfunction scaling from support to dexterity.

i highly suggest against that given the current balance.

technician runs on dex, overload runs on dex, plasma rain runs on dex.
adding malfunction while it would create some new build types, it would also kill others, and affect balance in another negative way.



Stabilis -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/1/2013 20:55:39)

Because of the synergy rule we should not allow a class to have an uneven number of skills improving by 1 type of stat. Since we have 4 stats (not health or energy), a class should have a maximum of (12 skills) / (4 stats) which is 3 skills improving by 1 stat. Technician, Overload, Malfunction, and Plasma Rain is 4... which is already too many skills on 1 stat. 1 of those skills should change stats (I vote Technician to Support). But, even so, 4 skills would never be a viable build because of 2 very detrimental reasons. We have 34 skill points, and each of these 4 skills costs an amount of energy. The upkeep for the 4 Dexterity skills is too high, which is why the proposed build (Technician + Overload + Malfunction + Plasma Rain) would ultimately fail; it would not be overpowered.

Even so, 4 skills on Dexterity is too many. How else are we supposed to get 3 skills for each of the other 3 stats?



spinutto -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/2/2013 5:39:32)

Now im sounding like a parrot but...
Gentleman, the Omage phase brought us a new stat system, totally revamped, and assumed that the skills would
be balance due to the ''nerf '' in the stats. Now we can see that the skills also need a balance.
1st example: Plasma bolt escales too fast and WITHOUT decay in tech.
2st example: Smoke also takes too much dex without effort as in lv4 with some tech you take about 33 dex...
3rd example: The shields, I mean 2 points and with decent support u get around 23 def/res!? You see my point there?

The most balanced class is Blood Mage as it was ironically nerfed to the ground prior to the release, and now its quite good!

So resuming;FIX THE SKILL PROGRESSION AND SCALING TOO!



ale6300 -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/2/2013 10:26:19)

@spinutto Shields give that high defense because they had flat defenses or resistance dont affect any stat and dont give any bonus, to get a decent Reflex boost or Technician you need it trained to level 6 to 7 to cover a debuff but also gives you More deflect, block chance and improve skills, also reflex boost gives you mini reroute for few turns.



spinutto -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/2/2013 11:24:45)

^
Actually I was referring to the fact that the skills scaling and power are the sames as back in mid-Delta(with the exception of some like Double Strike,Berzerker,Bludgeon etc...)



ale6300 -> RE: to make the game more strategic. (5/2/2013 12:39:04)

@spinutto And only Tech Moves Are Effective for the moment Bunker Buster, Plasma Cannon, Plasma Bolt, Surgical Strike, the problem is the synergy With Robot, for me the extra dmg of bot given by technology need to be splited for the 4 stat its only are a suggestion but dont had any idea how to implement it on the game.



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